Way OT: 12 Grimmauld Place Appearance?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 142134

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "kiricat4001" <zarleycat at s...>
wrote:
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > bboyminn:
> > 
> > I hope this is on-topic enough that I can get away with it. I'm
> > wondering how other people pictured 12 Grimmauld Place and 
> > Grimmauld Square in general. This is more likely in London. 
> > Also, despite my outward picture of the Black house as a mansion, 
> > I get a very /narrow/ sense of the interior space. 


> Marianne:
> I pictured Grimmauld Place (the street area including the park 
> ... as a run-down version of places like Gramercy Park in New York 
> City.  It's a small park with local streets bordering its four 
> sides. On the other sides of these streets are what Steve is 
> calling row houses, and what I would call townhouses or brownstones.
> They may not necessarily share a wall, but the space between them 
> would be minimal, no more than a walkway for access to the back of 
> the building. Certainly not a large enough space for lawns or 
> gardens.  
> 
> I too got a sense of a narrow interior space.  ...
> 
> Marianne
>


bbboyminn:

Ooooohhhh! Thank you everyone. I'm so glad I asked. You've all given
me such lovely images of Grimmauld Square/Grimmauld Place.

As I said, my image was greatly influence by some cover artwork. I
believe there is a Deluxe boxed version of Order of the Phoenix that
has a picture of a dark gloomy mansion on the box cover. This dark
gloomy mansion with its implicaition of some degree of grounds sort of
stuck with me. But again, the interior descriptions don't really
coincide with an expansive mansion.

So, I think I'm going to have to revise my exterior mental picture of
the Black house. Not that it was really that firmly etched in my mind.
Mostly I picture interior spaces when I envision the house. 

I like Marianne's idea, I think it very closely describes what you are
LIKELY to find in London. I just want to make a couple of small
changes. I like the idea of brownstone or greystone, but I suspect
that over the centuries grand bright brown or grey stone has become
nearly charcoal grey (close to black) with centuries of age, soot, and
other polution. 

Next, I like Ceridwen idea and her(?) description. As soon as I read
it I was immediately reminded of the houses that the characters of
'Finding Neverland' with Johnny Depp lived in. They were very close to
Ceridwen description, and I think they are very likely accurate
portrayals of Grimmauld Square, only I don't think they would be quit
as posh as the 'Finding Neverland' houses. Those seemed to have a
small front lawn/garden with a narrow but walkable fenced space
between houses. And a reasonable, but not especially large back
gardern/lawn. 

Just one small problem, which is the idea of white marble or
whitewash. That's a little to bright for something as grim as the
Black house, or as grim as the Black family mood. Of course, it could
be plain stone that was whitewashed originally, then over the
centuries, the whitewash wore off, and now we just have centuries aged
and discolored plain stone. Anyway, as much as I like the imagry, I'm
sticking with brownstone/greystone.

I think I might have to rent 'Finding Neverland' again, just to get a
look at the houses. Based on my memory, I'm now thinking of houses
slightly less posh than the 'Finding Neverland' houses, but not quite
so un-posh as to qualify as row houses. I do agree that at one time
these were nice city homes for rich country gentlemen, that as the
neighborhoods deteriorated were converted to flats. The Black house
appears to be consistent with the neighborhood, but I suspect, in its
day, was a little more grand than its neighbors.

On another note; to some extent I got the impression that the left and
right sides of the Black house were not on the same level. That is,
one side was offset by about half a story from the other side. Perhaps
that is merely an impression I got from the limited information on the
bedroom locations. I could explain this by saying that perhaps on the
main level is a grand reception room with a very high ceiling. The
other house rooms have normal ceiling height. That would account for
one side of the building being 'offset' from the other.

For the record, in my vision of the house, the staircase in on the
right as you face the back of the house. Not that it matters. 

Another thing I wonder about is the kitchen. If you look at pictures
of London houses, the 'lower level' is frequently only half
'submerged'. This allows some windows to the lower level to exist and
provide a service/delivery entrance that is separate from the main
owner entrance. I'm not sure I have enough information to say that the
Black house has this. When Harry describes the basement/kitchen, he
says it's dungeon like with rough stone walls and no windows. Yet,
this partly underground basement idea is very common.

One last note; I've always envisioned Grimmauld Square as something of
a cul-de-sac. It's not a square in the middle of a through street, but
 a three or possible four sided square set off the main road. If a
four sided square, then I envision it connected to the main (or
semi-main) road by no more than a short city block. 

If you would like to have some idea of where Grimmauld Square is, here
is a link to a map of King's Cross station with a one mile circle
around it. One mile is about one hours walking distance. Remember
Harry walked to Kings Cross to return to School in OotP. The one mile
radius circle is is bordered by Regent's Park in the west, Kentish
Town and Lower Holloway in the north, Hoxton in the east, and Holborn
and Soho in the south.

http://www.homestead.com/BlueMoonMarket/Files/Hogwarts/12grim.jpg

This file is quite large; approx. 650kb. You can see several of my
other 'Where in the world...' maps in the Links-Speculative Geography
section of this group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/links/Speculative_Geograph_000972354701/

My next 'Where in the world...' project is 'Where in the World are
Giants'. For the record, it's probably the Ural Mountains of Russia.

Thanks to everyone, and remember, I'm not shooting down your vision,
merely refining my own.

Steve/bboyminn