Why 4 Horcruxes left, and not 3??

[ronnie]

No: HPFGUIDX 142234

> > Benjy Fenwick, he copped 
> > it too, we only ever found bits of him... > 
Christina wrote:

> however, I don't think it's right to assume that all of these 
> deaths were caused by AK's. 
>  We have seen murders committed in other ways-Bellatrix  
> kills Sirius by sending him through the veil, Peter kills 
> 12 (13?) muggles by blowing up a street.  Benjy Fenwick must have 
> been killed in another way- AK doesn't tear people's bodies apart.

Expectopatronnie:

Well, I know I must be in denial, but this is exactly why I believe 
Sirius is not *dead* dead - I think he's only caught in the death 
substance, just like the bird (& DE's head) are caught in time-
substance. But this truely belongs to a different thread...

What I do want to make clear, is that IMO wizards can only get 
killed with strong magical spells, such as AK. ("'CAR CRASH' roared 
Hagrid.... 'How couls a car crash kill Lily an' James Potter? It's 
an outrage! A scandal!" PS, p.44, Bloomsbury edition). So the 
muggles PP killed are not relevant. I believe the most popular 
murder spell is AK, but perhaps Benjy Fenwick was killed by a S 
(maybe Snape did that?)or his body might have been abused post-
mortem (like in some terrorist attacks).

> > Expectopatronnie:
> > For crying out loud - Sirius and 
> > Lupin almost did in PoA (aiming at the rat, of course).
> 
> Christina:
> 
> I think Peter was actually in his human form when Lupin and Sirius 
> aimed their wands at him, IIRC, but that's not too relevant. 

Expectopatronnie:

I had the other meaning of 'rat' in mind. You're right - of course 
he was aimed at in his human form.   

> Christina:
> 
> Are you saying that the Death Eaters didn't want to cast an AK for 
> fear of smashing the prophecy (I'm not sure if I'm understanding 
you 
> correctly).  If so, that seems like an unlikely excuse, given the 
> fact that they are throwing stunning spells around left and right 
> and blowing things up.

Expectopatronnie:
I meant that they didn't want Harry to smash the prophecy on 
purpose! Even in the mess at the scene in the DoM, there seemed to 
have been a status quo, initiated by Harry: 'I won't smash the 
prophecy if you won't hurt my friends more than necessary in this 
chase'. "Harry felt the others close in around Ginny; he stepped 
sideways so that he was right in front of her, the prophecy held up 
to his chest. 'You'll have to smash this if you want to attack any 
of us' he told Bellatrix." (OotP, p.691, Bloomsbury). 

The AK curses (and Sirius' so-called death) arive much later in the 
plot - after the Order members arive, and the DEs have nothing more 
to loose. 

> Christina:
> 
> Horcruxes must cause more damage than just casting AK's all around.
>   If as many people are able to cast a killing curse as you say,
>  and if they are as common as you say, why 
> aren't all *those* people gradually becoming less and less human?  
> Why do the other Death Eaters seem so human and sane (minus our 
> friends who have spent time in Azkaban of course)?  

Expectopatronnie: 

That's a really good point you're making, and I really have to 
reconsider my position on the subject. I believe that every AK ripps 
the soul, and therefore every DE (or other) that commits this act 
will be to some extent 'less human'. This is precisely why Harry 
stops Lupin and Sirius from killing PP - not out of pity for Peter, 
but out of concern for his father's more loyal friends. 

However, it is true that only VM *looks* less and less human. (I 
don't buy the 'sane' part - Lucius Malfoy or Walden Macnair are as 
antisocial as VM. So what makes him look this way? Is it the 
Horcruxs? Or maybe the countless AK's VM has performed? or - and 
this is my 'Father's Law'psychological theory - maybe it has 
something to do with killing one's own father? 

> Christina:
> 
> Also, considering the fact that Book 7 is 
> essentially going to be "Harry Potter and the Search for the 
> Horcruxes," I don't think it's a futile exercise to consider 
> the possible ways in which horcruxes work.  
> As you can see from the conversation between 
> Expectopatronnie and me, we don't have a very clear picture of how 
> horcruxes fuction and it's possible to argue many different sides 
> of the issue.

Expectopatronnie:

I really agree with you on that one Christina! So how exactly *do* 
you thing the Horcruxes operate? Do you think that AK's weaken 
you're powers unless you make a Horcrux and encase your split soul 
using the energy discharged from the AK curse? Can anything be a 
horcrux? Can you produce a horcrux from any AK, or does it have to 
be a particularly cold-blood/meaningfull murder? 

E. (wondering how did VM get his red slit eyes....)