Snape in the Shrieking Shack (Was: Are appearances important to Snape?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 142258

> >>Hickengruendler: 
> > The Dementors still had to be somewhere close. Harry didn't drive
> > them away from the grounds. And they were meant to protect the
> > Hogwarts grounds after all.

> >>a_svirn:
> Harry drove the far enough nevertheless:
> "What amazes me most is the behavior of the dementors... you've 
> really no idea what made them retreat, Snape?" 
> "No, Minister... by the time I had come 'round they were heading 
> back to their positions at the entrances...."
> Also as Carol very rightly pointed out there was a werewolf out 
> there at large. So no, a search for a Dementor wasn't an option at 
> the time much to Snape's regret. 

Betsy Hp:
Why does Snape need a dementor?  If he's ESE or bent on revenge or 
especially trying to hide Peter's true role in the Potters' death, 
why not just kill Sirius himself?  He could kill Sirius, knock out 
Harry and then hunt down and kill Lupin, if he so desires.  
Actually, I'm kind of wondering why Snape felt he had to wait for 
Sirius to give him a reason back in the Shack, if he's evil and all.

> >>a_svirn:
> There is even less indication that only Bellatrix knew about 
> Wormtail, and that she had been more trusted follower than Snape. 
> For one thing Sirius actually said:
> "They *all* think you're dead, or you'd have to answer to them.... 
> I've heard *them* screaming all sorts of things in their sleep. 
> Sounds like they think the double-crosser double-crossed them" 
> (emphasis mine).
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Bellatrix (and those who came to Azkaban with her) would have 
realized there was a *double-crosser*.  I don't think it's clear 
that they knew exactly who the double-crosser was. Maybe the Death 
Eaters knew there was a spy but didn't know the spy's identity.
 
> >>Carol:
> > and his belief (clung to stubbornly, but he's
> > believed it for twelve years) that Sirius Black is a dangerous
> > murderer whom Lupin has been helping into the castle. When Snape 
> > tells Harry, "I just saved your life. You should be grateful"   
> > (quoted from memory), IMO, he believes exactly that.

> >>a_svirn:
> It would have been quite plausible if he hadn't witness their 
> comfortable prose together.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
One man's "comfortable pose" is another man's "confunded audience". 
<g>  Reading through the scene again (after the door creak and 
before Snape's reveal) it seems plausible (IMO) that Snape really 
did think the children were confunded.

Hermione is decribed as looking at Lupin "intently", 
Harry "raptly".  Lupin talks and talks and talks.  Black is staring 
at Ron (Scabbers really, but to Snape I think it could look like 
Ron) "with a horrible sort of hunger on his face" (PoA hardback 
scholastic p.355).  Black also snarls a couple of times (once just 
before Snape comes through the creaky door), and seems impatient for 
the talking to be over so the killing can begin (which, he actually 
kind of is).

Remember, Snape is sure (and Lupin admits) that Lupin has completely 
fooled *Dumbledore*.  Snape is wary enough of Lupin to actually back 
out of a room Lupin is in.  It's not a stretch at all, IMO, to think 
that Lupin *has* cast a spell on the children so that they will be 
more easily taken (or so they remain in the Shack long enough for 
him to transform).

> >>Christina:
> > A good *hour*? Snape enters on page 352 (US Hardcover) and      
> > reveals himself on page 357. That's five pages. Act it out;     
> > Snape was listening to Lupin for less than 10 minutes.

> >>a_svirn:
> Surely not? You probably can read it in ten or even less minutes,
> but acting it out? Why, only listening to the cricked door would
> take a couple of minutes.

Betsy Hp:
It doesn't really take a couple of minutes to walk through a door.  
I also have a hard time seeing Sirius patiently waiting for Lupin to 
drone on for an hour.  Or for Lupin to drone on for an hour without 
getting thirsty.  Or for Ron (with his broken leg) able to hold onto 
a desperate to escape rat for an hour.

There's really no action in this scene.  Lupin just talks.  The kids 
stare at him in captivation.  Black stares at the kids with murder 
in his eyes, and then Harry starts to get all dewy-eyed about his 
father.

> >>Christina:
> > As Colebiancardi said, Snape is not dead-set on bringing Sirius
> > directly to the Dementors. He expresses a good deal of fairness 
> > in the "Two more for Azkaban" and "Give me a reason" comments.   
> > As a matter of fact, I'd say that Snape's actions are more      
> > merciful than Lupins and Sirius's. Snape might *threaten* to    
> > give Sirius to the dementors directly, but he clearly mentions   
> > handing him (and Lupin) over to the authorities first.

> >>a_svirn:
> I wouldn't call it "fairness", myself. Wherein do you see fairness?
> Yes, he did at first considered bringing them to Fudge, but he
> changed his mind as soon as he realised that it would give Sirius
> chance to clear his name. You think it's fair? I wonder.

Betsy Hp:
Or did Snape change his mind when Sirius expressed such an eagerness 
to get to the castle? The same Sirius who managed to blow up a 
street before?  Perhaps Snape thinks Sirius has something up his 
sleeve.  We don't get to see into Snape's mind, so really, any 
scenario works.  But the fact that he feels he needs a *reason* to 
kill Sirius, the fact that he wants to turn the criminals over to 
the authorities (and the dementors, creepy as they are, are the 
authorities) does suggest a certain obedience to the law.  At least, 
IMO.

Betsy Hp