Wizards in a Muggle World (was:Spinner's End as home...)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 142267

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03"
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:
>
> > >>Betsy Hp:
> > > <snip>
> > > Then, of course, ... Molly has had to venture into town on a few
> > > occasions (calling a cab, getting Ron to a phone, buying stamps 
> > > for the letter they mailed to Harry) so obviously the townsfolk 
> > > know the Weasleys exist. ...
> > > <snip>
> > > 
> 
> > >>bboyminn:
> > <snip>
> > I've always analogized the Wizard World to Chinatown. ...
> > <snip>
> > Now, it's not impossible for them to venture out of Chinatown, but
> > they do so with great hesitation.
> > <snip>
> > In the rare but notable cases where a wizard lives in a muggle
> > neighborhood, I believe it is either very urban and impersonal, so 
> > you don't have to know your neighbors, or it's remote like the    
> > Weasleys. Friendly comfortable safe suburbs don't seem likely for 
> > most wizard.
> > <snip>

 
> Betsy Hp:
> I've always liked this analogy of yours, but in thinking about it, I 
> don't think it quite works.  Because Chinatown is known.  It's not a 
> hidden place at all.  And the main thing, the guiding principle of 
> wizarding life, is to remain so completely hidden your existence is 
> seen as a mere myth.  So it's not so much maintaining your culture, 
> or staying where things are comfortable and/or safe, it's hiding.
> 

bboyminn:

Well, of course the analogy is flawed, I'm comparing a fantasy
fictional world to the real world, but Chinatown does illustrate how
on culture can exist somewhat isolated inside another culture. Also,
keep in mind that my illustration can never do more than /illustrate/
because in the broad sense, the British wizard world and the muggle
British world share the same history and language. 

When the Normans invaded, both wizard and muggle were invaded. When
the English fought the Scottish, that like affected both muggle and
magic. What affects one, in a broad historical context, affects both.  

So, even knowing that my /illustration/ is flawed, I think it still
serves are a real world example that one smaller divergent culture can
live isolated in another larger more pervasive culture. 

Also note that while it is the objective of the wizard world to remain
/secret/, it is not necessarily their objective to remain hidden.
We've seen wizards take train and subway rides. We've seen them walk
the streets of muggle London. There is no problem with being seen in
general, there is only a problem as being seens as a wizard or as magical.

> Betsy Hp:
>
> I get the sense ...that wizards generally *don't* live around 
> each other.  The Weasleys are isolated.  The Blacks seemed to be the 
> only wizards in their neighborhood. Hogsmeade is described as an 
> anomaly. Diagon Alley and Knockturn Alley are both rather small, 
> especially if they're compared to a city's Chinatown (or Little 
> Italy, or what have you).
> 
> ...  And I think it *would* be easier to hide how different you 
> are from your neighbors if there's only you, or just your immediate 
> family. One eccentric on the block (or in the neighborhood) is not 
> too remarkable. And entire enclave of them becomes a bit more 
> noticable, I would think.
> 
> Betsy Hp

bboyminn:

I think you've got a good point there. I suspect that part of the
secrecy protection of the wizard world says the wizards don't gather
together around muggles. Also, remember that there are only several
thousand wizards at best (exact number can't be determine, not even by
JKR). So, in reality, wizards are a much smaller minority that Chinese
in the UK. 

On the other hand, 'birds of a feather flock together'. I can envision
a magical family moving into a small obscure London neighborhood, and
mentioning to a friend that a house just went up for sale. So the
friend buys the house, and the next thing you know wizards dominate
the neighborhood. If they are preforming even minor protections spells
on their houses and gardens/yards, then perhaps the neighborhood takes
on a very /uninteresting/ feel, and eventually more muggle move out.
Next thing you know, you have an entire neighborhood dominated by
wizards. Soon, there is a wizard's tea shop, and maybe a wizard's
convenience store with mild muggle repelling charms on them.

Of course, I admit, we don't see that in the books. All I am saying is
that I can envision it. 

Steve/bboyminn