Snape in the Shrieking Shack (Was: Are appearances important to Snape?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 142302

> >>Betsy Hp:
> >Why does Snape need a dementor? If he's ESE or bent on revenge or
> >especially trying to hide Peter's true role in the Potters' death,
> >why not just kill Sirius himself? He could kill Sirius, knock out
> >Harry and then hunt down and kill Lupin, if he so desires.
> >Actually, I'm kind of wondering why Snape felt he had to wait for
> >Sirius to give him a reason back in the Shack, if he's evil and   
> >all.

> >>a_svirn:
> Why, to avoid Azkaban, of course. If a wizard with a DE record    
> used an Unforgivable, I really don't think he would have been able 
> to avoid punishment even with Dumbledore on his side. Also there   
> is a little matter of inquiry. Snape clearly does not want anyone 
> to pry in this too closely.

Betsy Hp:
Ahh, but we're talking about the WW here.   You know, the place that 
sent Sirius to Azkaban without fussing much about a trial?  I 
somehow think that if Snape showed up with Sirius's corpse in his 
clutches Fudge would give out medals first and ask questions... 
well, never. <g> 

> >>Alla:
> Oh, I think Snape chose a PERFECT revenge on Sirius. I wonder, what
> Sirius would have preferred, if asked - to be killed fast with AK 
> or to be put back to the Dementors, who made you so miserable and
> eventually insane, that is if we assume that Sirius would not have
> received kiss right away. I believe that after spending twelve    
> years in Dementors company , Sirius really really did not want to 
> see them again.

Betsy Hp:
Oh, I'm sure Snape enjoyed Sirius's eyes filling with fear when he 
mentioned the Dementors.  But I honestly doubt that his entire goal 
was making Sirius squirm.  (Sirius turned out to be one of the 
easier Marauders for Snape to get over, I think.  Too much emotion 
on display for Snape to play with.)

> >>Betsy Hp:
> >Bellatrix (and those who came to Azkaban with her) would have
> >realized there was a *double-crosser*. I don't think it's clear
> >that they knew exactly who the double-crosser was. Maybe the Death
> >Eaters knew there was a spy but didn't know the spy's identity.

> >>a_svirn:
> Actually, I think you are quite right. I too think that they 
> meant "someone else". Pettigrew does not fit the description, 
> because he never "double-crossed" them. He only double-crossed the 
> Order and the Potters.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But they think (or Sirius implied that any Death Eater would think) 
that the double-crosser did another double-cross and lead Voldemort 
to his doom.  So to Bellatrix and those who think like her, 
Pettigrew *is* a double-double-crosser.

> >>Alla:
> But it IS a reasonable interpretation of Sirius' words that they
> indeed knew, won't you agree? I wonder how Snape is different from
> them that he did not know, if they indeed knew, of course.

Betsy Hp:
Or sure.  Yes, it's reasonable.  Though, I do think it makes more 
sense for Voldemort to keep such a well-placed spy a secret known 
only to him.  But if he did share that information with a few Death 
Eaters it would make sense that Snape was not among them.  If Snape 
is ever discovered by Dumbledore it's important that he not be able 
to give Peter away.  (And vice versa I'd imagine.  I wonder if Peter 
knew who informed Dumbledore of Voldemort's interest in the Potters 
in the first place.)

> >>Betsy Hp:
> ><snip>
> >Remember, Snape is sure (and Lupin admits) that Lupin has 
> >completely fooled *Dumbledore*. Snape is wary enough of Lupin to 
> >actually back out of a room Lupin is in. It's not a stretch at   
> >all, IMO, to think that Lupin *has* cast a spell on the children 
> >so that they will be more easily taken (or so they remain in the 
> >Shack long enough for him to transform).

> >>a_svirn:
> You mean Snape thought that all those reminiscences were nothing 
> else but a way to while away the time before Lupin's              
> transformation? 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I'm not going to try and fathom the way a werewolf's mind works 
<g>.  Seriously though, the fact Snape says this suggests that he 
can't penetrate Lupin's mind.  Either Lupin's not a bad Occlumens 
himself, or it's some aspect of being a werewolf.  Either way Lupin 
is a dark horse to Snape.  So yeah, maybe Lupin gets off on eating 
children and figures he'll delay the kids long enough to get himself 
a night-time snack.  Or, Lupin thinks Harry has potential to be the 
next Dark Lord and is planning to squirrel him away somewhere.  Or 
he just enjoys toying with the kids until it's time to kill them.

I doubt Snape worried too much about Lupin's motivations.  He 
obviously saw the Marauders as a bunch of sadists who grew up to 
betray their friend and follow Voldemort.  Harry, Hermione, and Ron 
are all armed at this point, but they're clearly under Lupin's 
influence.  What Snape saw was the need to change the balance of 
power in the room, take Lupin down and put Sirius under wand point.  
Which he achieves.  What he underestimates is the influence Lupin 
has managed to get over the children.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> >We don't get to see into Snape's mind, so really, any
> >scenario works. But the fact that he feels he needs a *reason* to
> >kill Sirius, the fact that he wants to turn the criminals over to
> >the authorities (and the dementors, creepy as they are, are the
> >authorities) does suggest a certain obedience to the law. At     
> >least, IMO.

> >>a_svirn:
> Well, as a man who had nearly escaped Azkaban some years          
> previously he would certainly have been wary of the Law. Much as   
> he wanted to kill Sirius, in front of the three or four (if we    
> count Lupin) witnesses he would have needed a "reason" very badly.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I have a feeling Snape knows how to cast an Oblivate.  Any fuzziness 
on the childrens' part would be due to the confunding spell Lupin 
put them under.  As to Lupin, well, he'd be pulled in as a werewolf, 
in full snarling mode.  I doubt he'd last the night, and even if he 
did, I doubt any testimony of his would be listened to by the 
Ministry.

Of course, there is Dumbledore.  I doubt Snape could have pulled the 
wool over his eyes as easily as Fudge's.  (Though isn't that the 
basic principle of the ESE!Snape argument?  That Snape is an expert 
when it comes to fooling Dumbledore?)

> >>Alla:
> It can also suggest that Snape likes his revenge served with the
> audience around and praising him as hero in the meantime, at least
> IMO.

Betsy Hp:
If Snape showed up with Sirius's body he'd have had the applause and 
the praise.  And he'd have had the joy of killing Sirius himself.

Betsy Hp