Why can't Harry? - Horcrux!Harry and other great mysteries.

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 142327

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, elfundeb <elfundeb at g...> wrote:
> ...edited...
>  ... And there's a Horcrux version of the non-Horcrux version: 
> Harry is a Horcrux, but Voldemort did not intend to make him 
> into one, i.e., he only intended to use the soul fragment torn 
> as a result of Harry's death to make one, or he intended to make
> a Horcrux of Harry's dead body and believes he has failed. ... 
> So, Voldemort is hunting Harry down because of the Prophecy, but
> without knowledge of Horcrux!Harry.

bboyminn:

I have some real problems with Harry-the-Horcrux. Though, do keep
reading because I am intrigued by Elfundeb's suggestions. The main
problem is that while Dumdledore knows Harry has a 'bit' of Voldemort
in him, the idea that that 'bit' is a bit of Voldemort's soul doesn't
seem to have occurred to him; at least not in anyway that has been
revealed to us. 

In fact, when Dumbledore and Harry are discussing to Horcruxes, the
Prophecy, and Voldemort near the end of HBP, Dumbledore makes a
distinction between Voldemort's soul and Voldemort's power. In 
pointing out that Voldemort has diminished himself by breaking up his
soul, Dumbledore reminds Harry that while V's soul is diminished, he
is as magically powerful as ever. 

In a sense, I attribute magical power to 'earthly essense'. Using
reincarnation as an illustration, magical power is an aspect of the
body, it's an aspect of this current physical incarnation. The spirit
or soul exist across many incarnations; magical and otherwise. So, the
presence of some of Voldie's magical power in Harry should not be
considered an indication of the presence of Voldemort's soul. 

Still, the idea is a powerful one, and has a variety of storyline
possibilities. Though, I can't imagine why Voldemort would ever
consider intensionally making a Horcrux out of Harry's dead body. The
new Horcrux 'body' must be something that will endure. It must be
something that will last so that it can contain the soul piece safely.
If Harry's body lies rotting in the grave or is cremated, that doesn't
bode will for the long lasting properties of the Horcrux. 

That brings us to the other problem I have, how could a bit of
Voldemort's soul possible get into Harry? I'm not buying speculation
that Voldemort made the Horcrux preperations in advance because I can
see no reason for it. He has plenty of time to make the Horcrux later.
While people can speculate possibilities in this area, I honestly find
most of them farfetched.

In general, I have a problem with Harry killing Voldemort. I could
handle Harry causing Voldemort's death, but I'm just not sure I can
see Harry 'bang-your-dead' flat out killing Voldemort. Is it really
that simple? Will Harry just go, in the final moment, 'Avada Kadavra'
and Voldemort will fall over dead? It leaves me feeling uneasy.

Maybe Harry could hit him with a Stunning Curse and knock him off the
top of a tower, or hit him with a spell that pushes Voldie through the
Arched Veil of Death, or some other indirect means. But if Harry flat
out kills Voldie, doesn't he become essentially the thing he is
fighting against? 


> Eldundeb:
>
> I actually think Unknown!Harrycrux is the most likely Harrycrux
> scenario, because if Voldemort were aware of Harrycrux then he's
> attempting to kill his own soul piece; ... 
> 
>  Geoff wrote:
> 
> "If Harry is indeed a Horcrux than we know that he will have to
> die in order for Voldemort to be destroyed once and for all. ...
>
>  Debbie:
> ...edited..
> 
> Since Harry's already made his choice, I don't know how a 
> Harrycrux would restrict his choice in Book 7.
>
> I am attracted to Horcrux!Harry theories in part because I've 
> always thoughtit fairly likely that Harry would be called upon 
> to sacrifice himself. But I've never envisioned that he would 
> have time to brood over his supposed lack of choice; it would 
> be a sudden realization of the nature of his task.
>
> My scenario is this: The Harrycrux would not be discovered 
> until the "final" confrontation, in which Voldemort's body 
> would be destroyed ... but Vapormort would escape. Harry would
> then have two choices: (i) let Vapormort escape, ... or (ii)
> sacrifice himself, which would release Voldemort's soul to the 
> next great adventure. 
> ...edited...
> 
> Debbie

bboyminn:

As difficult as it is for me to accept any logical Harry!Horcrux
scenarios, let's try this one on for size. Oh so many years ago when
Voldemort tried to kill Harry and the curse rebounded on him and
ripped him from his body, several of Voldemort's many home-soul-pieces
were released into the cosmos. 

In that brief moment of being ripped from their home-body the
soul-pieces desprerately searched for a new home before joining
Vapormort. In that brief instant, one of many soul-pieces grabbed the
nearest living body it could find and that body was Harry's. Perhaps,
for one tiny micro-fraction of a second, Harry was even dead, but in
the instant that Voldemort's still vital soul-piece entered Harry, and
before Harry's own soul could 'give up the ghost', Harry was
re-animated; still very much alive. Now we have living-Harry with a
ramdon Voldemort soul-piece in him. Again, I find it farfetched, but
it does read nicely.

Now I must diverge for a moment. In the past I put out one of my many
wild speculations in which Harry would die by some definition in the
final battle with Voldemort, but would be brought back to life. The
idea was, in that brief moment of Harry's virtual death, Voldemort
would be vulnerable to death. Notice any similarity between this
scenario and the above Harry!Horcurx scenario? Of course, the most
recent book has somewhat shot down my original speculation, but that's
OK, I'm adaptable; so now I shall adapt.

First, let's consider what might happen if Voldemort tries to AK one
of his own soul-pieces. I can't help wonder if that doesn't constitute
'special circumstances'. So, here is what I propose. Before the final
battle, Harry /thinks/ he has eliminated all the Horcruxes. He then
confronts Voldemort, Voldemort AK's Harry, but do to a variety of
special circumstances the AK rebounds on him. In that micro-fraction
of time between when the curse is cast and when the rebound strikes
Voldemort, the curse kills Harry and thereby releases that last and
final bit of Voldemort's soul. Now Voldemort is completely mortal, and
the rebounding curse kills Voldemort once and for all. 

Now again, we have the rearing of special circumstances. In a sense,
Voldemort, in attempting to kill Harry, is actually trying to kill
himself. His soul resides in Harry; and in a sense, killing someone
merely releases their soul to the 'great beyond'. But, unknown to
Voldemort, he is trying to /release/ TWO SOULS to the great beyond, an
extremely unusual circumstance. Even more unusual is that one of the
souls he is trying to release is his own. VERY SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
INDEED.

So, short version; Harry is killed releasing Voldemort last remote
soul-piece, the rebounding curse kills Voldemort once and for all, a
great wailing and gnashing of teeth as the world morns the death of a
hero (that would be Harry). Then suddenly with a great gasp of air,
Harry sit up and say, "What happen?" ...trumpets blare, confetti and
streamers, the world celebrates, their great hero has risen from the
dead. So, it ends as it began. VERY SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES INDEED.

HEY! IT COULD HAPPEN!

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn