Snape in the Shrieking Shack (Was: Are appearances important to Snape?)

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142328

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn at y...> wrote:
 
> > colebiancardi:
> 
> >see, I think the MoM HAS ways to control the dementors - I mean 
> >really
> >control them. Re: Umbridge, Fudge in your scene above. The 
> >dementors
> >"work" for the MoM, not Hogwarts. So, I still think Snape would be
> >taking on a huge risk with all the dementors out there in the
> >forest(there are more than one or two - there is quite a few of 
> >them).
> >Since Snape is not an employee of MoM, I doubt he can control them 
> <snip>
> 
> a_svirn:
> 
> Now, that would be the most unfeasible arrangement imaginable. I 
> doubt even Lord Voldemort would have wanted such unreliable allies. 
> Besides, it's not true. They are vicious and indiscriminative when 
> it comes to feeding on other's emotions but up until they switched 
> their allegiances to Voldemort there was no danger of unauthorized 
> kisses. Yes, they attacked Harry and Hermione but only because they 
> were fighting on the side of their lawful prey. Neither on the train 
> not at the match did they try to kiss anyone. The former was a 
> routine check-up and on the match they simply wanted to have some 
> fun, as Lupin explained. Unfortunately, it so happened that Harry 
> was more susceptible to their influence than most, just like Ron is 
> more susceptible to the wiles of the veela. The dementors, however, 
> no more tried to kiss him or anyone than Fleur tried to seduce Ron. 
> 
> Dementors were stationed at the entrances of the school and in 
> Hogsmead without a single Auror in sight and no one though to 
> conceal Hogsmead weekends. Nor did Hogsmead's residents fear for 
> their safety. (Well they did but on account of Black, not 
> dementors). As for Umbridge, she didn't accompany them to Little 
> Whining, did she? And yet, they did not roam all over Surrey hunting 
> souls. They came specifically to Little Whining, specifically to 
> Privet Drive and they didn't pay a visit to mark evances or mrs. 
> figgs of the neighborhood on their way there. No they only sought to 
> kiss Harry Potter and his cousin. I'd say they were very particular 
> in their attentions!
> 
> Dumbledore's objection was first and foremost ethical. He wasn't 
> afraid of dementors, he as – Arthur put it – wasn't FOND of them and 
> didn't want them anywhere near his students. Whereas the rest of the 
> wizarding population – Arthur included – were quite prepared to put 
> up with the Lesser Evil for the Greater Good. 
> 
> a_svirn

colebiancardi:
I don't see how this is "unfeasible arrangement imaginable".   You
wouldn't want anyone being able to control the dementors, would you? 
 And DD & Lupin didn't control the dementors, they drove them off with
a patronus.  And it wasn't a bit of fun on the Quidditch match.  Lupin
took it quite seriously and didn't state that at all:

p188 PoA Am.HardCover: "They're getting hungry" said Lupin coolly,
shutting his briefcase with a snap.  "Dumbledore won't let them into
the school, so their supply of human prey has dried up...I don't think
they could resist the large crowd around the Quidditch field.  All
that excitement....emotions running high...it was their idea of a feast."

later on, he explains(same page) "Dementors are supposed to drain a
wizard of his powers if he is left with them too long..."

and if there are too many of them (same page) "There are - certain
defenses one can use," said Lupin.  "But there was only one dementor
on the train.  The more there are, the more difficult it becomes to
resist"

I don't believe the dementor's were doing a routine check on the
train, either.  Lupin went to talk to the driver, and McGonagall &
Pomfrey were both quite upset at dementors being set upon the school.
 The danger is there.  The Kiss is the last weapon they have, and they
do that to those they wish to destroy.  We don't know that they
wouldn't have kissed Harry, as they were fought back by Lupin and then
Dumbledore.  And in the scene by the lake, where Harry & Sirius were
trapped by the dementors, seemed like the dementors weren't just
interested in sucking the soul out of Sirius - they wanted Harry as well:
p. 384

"The nearest dementor seemed to be considering him.  Then it raised
both of its rotting hands - and lower its hood....<snip> But a pair of
strong, clammy hands suddenly attached themselves around Harry's nexk.
 They were forcing his face upward...He could feel its breath...It was
going to get rid of him first...He could feel its putrid breath."

sounds like a kiss in that scene, doesn't it?

As far as Lord Voldemort using such "unreliable allies", well, aren't
all of his allies unreliable?  You can't trust evil, which is why
Dumbledore doesn't believe the MoM should use dementors to guard
Azkaban - DD doesn't believe the MoM has control over them, and in
HBP, we find out the dementors have switched sides, because Voldy is
back - and Voldemort probably appeals to the dementor's evil nature to
begin with.  Voldemort probably thrives on chaos - not in his own
circle, of course - but outside of it.  If the dementors go around &
suck all the souls out of any wizard that opposes him, I don't think
LV would think that unreliable.

The scene in GoF with Fudge and the dementor sucking the soul of of
Junior is simple.  Fudge is the head of the MoM - he still has control
over them - the lone dementor, unlike the many that were in the forest
in PoA, was easily controlled by Fudge.  And the scene with the
dementors in OotP, they were sent out by Umbridge - you made my case
for me.  She ordered them to go and get Harry, but they were willing
to take his cousin along for the ride as well.  She stated that
something had to be done about Harry, not his cousin.  His cousin was
just an accidental bystander.  Since she wasn't there, the dementors
seem to have no problem getting someone else if they are close to
their target.

No, I think that bringing a person to a bunch of dementors to be
kissed without someone from the MoM is a dangerous & risky
proposition.  I never once believed that Snape would do that on his
own, regardless if I thought he was evil or not.  He would be risking
his own life as well.  In the scene with Harry & Sirius, the dementors
were going to kiss Harry first, not Sirius.  What type of protection
could Snape have had?  We know that there are defensive measures that
a wizard can use to fight off dementors, but we also know that the
dementors did take orders from the MoM - something that we do not see
Dumbledore,  Harry, Lupin, and all the other wizards at Hogwarts use -
they just use the defensive means.


colebiancardi
(wondering how you thought that Lupin was telling Harry the dementors
were having fun at the Quidditch match?)