Snape in the Shrieking Shack (Was: Are appearances important to Snape?)

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142337

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn at y...> wrote:
>
> >colebiancardi:
> >I don't see how this is "unfeasible arrangement imaginable". You
> >wouldn't want anyone being able to control the dementors, would you?
> 
> a_svirn:
> I would, however, want to be sure that they wouldn't put too liberal 
> a construction on my orders. For how long do you think Fudge would 
> have kept his office had they indeed desouled anyone on the train?

colebiancardi:
again, you've made my case for me :)  There was no representative from
the MoM on the train.  The dementors seem to run amuck without the MoM
around.  They have orders, but once they are set loose, it seems they
read into those orders very liberally - there was no reason for them
to go into the train to "check things out".  They did so because of
all the emotions on the train - re: same with the Quidditch match.

> a_svirn:
> Lupin went to send an owl to Hogwarts, informing them of the 
> incident with Harry. And McGonagall and Pomfrey were upset for the 
> same reason as Dumbledore. They didn't want dementors anywhere near 
> students, because they feed on the human emotions and because the 
> prolonged exposure to them drains wizards of their powers. And if it 
> wasn't a check-up what *was* it then? 

colebiancardi:  see above post.  and I think the two ladies were quite
upset that the dementors entered the train.  The train seems to be
school property, no?  It is called the Hogwarts Express.

> 
> >colebiancardi:
> >And in the scene by the lake, where Harry & Sirius were
> >trapped by the dementors, seemed like the dementors weren't just
> >interested in sucking the soul out of Sirius - they wanted Harry as 
> >well
> 
> a_svirn:
> 
> I thought I had addressed that already but if you insist – here is a 
> quote from my previous post (Message 142323): 
> 
> >they are vicious and indiscriminative when
> > it comes to feeding on other's emotions but up until they switched
> > their allegiances to Voldemort there was no danger of unauthorized
> > kisses. Yes, they attacked Harry and Hermione but only because they
> > were fighting on the side of their lawful prey. 
> 
> Harry tried to repel them from Sirius, the criminal No.1 of the WW. 
> He actually had the audacity to aid and abet the fugitive. Not 
> surprising that they wanted him as well. 

colebiancardi:
Perhaps, but Harry wasn't able to do anything to the dementors.  If
the dementors were really after Sirius, why not go for him first?  Why
Harry?  Harry could not raise a patrous, he was no threat to the
dementors.  Which brings me back to the dementors not being picky
about whom they soul-suck.  I don't buy into the Harry was a bigger
threat than Sirius in that scene. 

 > >colebiancardi:
> 
> >And the scene with the
> >dementors in OotP, they were sent out by Umbridge - you made my 
> >case
> >for me. She ordered them to go and get Harry, but they were willing
> >to take his cousin along for the ride as well. She stated that
> >something had to be done about Harry, not his cousin. His cousin 
> >was
> >just an accidental bystander. Since she wasn't there, the dementors
> >seem to have no problem getting someone else if they are close to
> >their target.
> 
> a_svirn:
> 
> Do we actually know what her exact orders were? Until we do I rest 
> my case. 
>
OotP: p. 747 AmEd Hardcover:
Umbridge:"He never knew I ordered dementors after Potter last summer,
but he was delighted to be given the chance to expel him, all the same..."
"It was you?" gasped Harry.  "You sent the dementors after me?"
"Somebody had to act," breathed Umbridge, as her wand came to rest
pointing directly at Harry's forehead.  "They were all bleating about
silencing you somehow - discrediting you - but I was the one who
actual did something about it...Only you wriggled out of that one,
didn't you Potter?"

as far as what the dementors were going to do to Harry, same book p18
"A pair of gray, slimy, scabbed hands slid from inside the dementor's
robes, reaching for him....<snip>There was laughter in his head,
shrill, high-pitched laugher...He could smell the dementor's putrid,
death-cold breath, filling his own lungs, drowning him"
and then on p18 -19 - poor dudders
"Dudley was curled on the ground, his arms clamped over his face; a
second dementor was crouching low over him, gripping his wrists in its
slimy hands, prizing them slowly, almost lovingly apart, lowering its
hooded head towards Dudley's face as though about to kiss him"

seems pretty darn clear to me at least, that Umbridge wanted to
silence Harry in the worst way possible - the dementor's kiss.  The
first part sounds just like what happened to Harry in PoA by the lake
with Sirius, and Dudley was also involved with the kiss - Why Dudley?
 If, like you stated, the reason why the dementors went after Harry in
PoA was because he was trying to repeal the dementors away from the
numero uno killer Sirius, what was the excuse to go after Dudley?  He
wasn't a threat to the dementors - he was curled up in a ball and he
isn't a wizard, just a poor muggle who was scared beyond belief.  I
don't think Dudley had, how did you put it, the "audacity to aid and
abet" Harry in this scene.

 
> colebiancardi
> (wondering how you thought that Lupin was telling Harry the dementors
> were having fun at the Quidditch match?)
> 
> a_svirn:
> 
> "it was their idea of a feast." Of course `fun' is not a synonym 
> of `feast' but not that far removed.
>

But nowhere did Lupin state it was a bit of fun.   Feasting dementors
is not something I would consider fun - perhaps it was the way you
worded it that I took offense to.  You made it seem in your post that
Lupin was brushing the Quidditch attack as dementors wanting some fun,
when in fact, they were not looking for fun - they were looking to
eat.  I think what Lupin was stating that the dementors were attracted
to the Quidditch game because they were very hungry and did not want
to be denied.  Think of wild animals bringing down a kill - that is a
feast for them, but it isn't fun - it is survivial.  I suppose
dementors must waste away if they don't eat.


colebiancardi
(we may never agree on this one.  I don't think any wizard in their
right mind would ever take the risk of feeding someone else to a
dementor on their own.  Which is how this all started.  I don't think
Snape was that off his rocker in PoA)