Snape in the Shrieking Shack (Was: Are appearances important to Snape?)

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142343

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn at y...> wrote:
>
> 
> > colebiancardi:
> > again, you've made my case for me :)  There was no representative 
> from
> > the MoM on the train.  The dementors seem to run amuck without the 
> MoM
> > around.  They have orders, but once they are set loose, it seems 
> they
> > read into those orders very liberally - there was no reason for 
> them
> > to go into the train to "check things out".  They did so because of
> > all the emotions on the train - re: same with the Quidditch match.
> 
> a_svirn:
> That's exactly what I call the "most unfeasible arrangement 
> imaginable". No one in their right mind would want employees who are 
> danger to the same population you are supposed to defend. I'd like 
> to repeat my question: how would it look for Fudge if they did 
> desoul anyone? 

colebiancardi:

well, Fudge is not the most competent or sharpest tool in the
woodshed, is he?  And this just goes to prove that when the dementors
are out of sight from MoM, they do have a mind of their own. 
Dumbledore doesn't want the dementors at Hogwarts, this probably being
one of the reasons why.  When the dementors are out of a controlled
environment such as Azkaban, it seems they do take orders quite
liberally and Fudge is an idiot to use such evil creatures.  There can
not be any good from siding with such souless beings as dementors.

> 
> 
> > colebiancardi:  see above post.  and I think the two ladies were 
> quite
> > upset that the dementors entered the train.  The train seems to be
> > school property, no?  It is called the Hogwarts Express.
> 
> a_svirn:
> You know there is a certain Orient-Express. I wonder whose property 
> is it. Orient's? 

colebiancardi:
now, now...The train is only used for transporting students & one lone
teacher back & forth to Hogwarts, as far as we can tell.  I envision
the Hogwarts Express to be like a school bus - and trust me, as I
almost got expelled for fighting on a school bus when I was a child,
the school DOES consider what happens on the bus to be their porblem,
not the transportation system.


> 
>  > colebiancardi:
> > >
> > OotP: p. 747 AmEd Hardcover:
> > Umbridge:"He never knew I ordered dementors after Potter last 
> summer,
> > but he was delighted to be given the chance to expel him, all the 
> same..."
> > "It was you?" gasped Harry.  "You sent the dementors after me?"
> > "Somebody had to act," breathed Umbridge, as her wand came to rest
> > pointing directly at Harry's forehead.  "They were all bleating 
> about
> > silencing you somehow - discrediting you - but I was the one who
> > actual did something about it...Only you wriggled out of that one,
> > didn't you Potter?"
> > 
> >>  If, like you stated, the reason why the dementors went after 
> Harry in
> > PoA was because he was trying to repeal the dementors away from the
> > numero uno killer Sirius, what was the excuse to go after Dudley?  
> 
> a_svirn:
> Well, it is pretty clear from the quote you provided (thanks!)that 
> she didn't only want to silence Harry, but also to *discredit* him. 
> Hence the attack on Dudley. I'd say it rather probable that she 
> would accuse Harry in attacking Dudley, and ascribe his own demise 
> to his resisting the arrest.
>
and you snipped out the description of the dementors attack on Harry -
It sounded to me from the description, plus LV's voive in Harry's
head, that Harry was going to die(p 18 OotP Am Ed Hardcover "Bow to
death, Harry....It might even be painless...I would not know....I have
never died".  I think Umbridge, given the choice, ordered the
dementors to silence Harry - for good.  Her second choice would be to
discredit him - but she had no idea that Harry & Dudley would be
together that night, unless you think she is a seer.  If there is no
one around Harry, who would have died, other than Harry?  How could
Harry be discredited, as he himself would probably be the victim of
the dementor's kiss?

also, there is some canon on the MoM's absolute control(and when I
state absolute, I mean they are the only ones authorized to give
orders to the dementors) over the dementors:

p 147 OotP same edition
"If it is true that the dementors are taking orders only from the
Ministry of Magic, and it is also true that two dementors attacked
Harry and his cousin a week ago, then it follows logically that
somebody at the Ministry might have ordered the attacks", said
Dumbledore politely.  "Of course, these particular dementors may have
been outside Ministry control --"
"There are no dementors outside Ministry control!" snapped Fudge, who
had turned brick red.
Dumbledore inclined his head in a little bow.
"Then undoubtely the Ministry will be making a full inquiry into why
two dementors were so very far from Azkaban and why they attacked
without authorization"


seems that dementors are *supposed* to be under MoM control & only are
supposed to attack with authorization.  So, since Snape is not part of
the MoM and has no authorization to give the dementors orders, how
could he offered up Sirius & Lupin to the dementors, without serious
risk to himself?

colebiancardi