Snape and the Life Debt

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 139310

Combined answers to Zgirnius, Also-September-19, Amiable Dorsai and
Luckdragon.

---

Zgirnius wrote, in message 139116:
"I don't think Snape would have agreed to an Unbreakable Vow to
protect Harry in the situation you outline. Your proposed theory says
Snape would die if he were unable to prevent Voldemort from killing
James. Why
exchange this for a scenario in which Snape would die if he were
unable to keep Voldemort from killing Harry? That had to seem equally
unlikely, at the time. Especially as Harry is the *true* target of
Voldemort, his parents are just obstacles, to be eliminated if they
get in the way."

Del replies:
You're right, it doesn't make sense :-) However, this can be easily
modified to: Lily made Snape promise to protect Harry against anyone
but LV. She might even have added a caveat that Snape was to protect
Harry as best he could as long as it didn't expose him as a
much-needed spy for the Order. Such a Vow would still demand *a lot*
from Snape, but it wouldn't pit him straight against LV like the Life
Debt did.

Anyway, as I said in my original post, I only added this UV bit to try
and include Lily in the whole affair. The Life Debt Transfer, in
itself, doesn't need that part to stand.

---

Also-September-19 wrote, in message 139148:
"I think the idea that you cannot be part of killing the person you
owe a life debt to is a good working hypothsis - though I don't think
there's any support for this in the text. In fact, I can't think of
any place the workings of a life debt are explained."

Del replies:
I said as much in my original message :-) JKR *never* explained how a
Life Debt works, which is quite strange considering that it is
supposed to be such an important business. She reminded us in an
interview that Peter owes a Life Debt to Harry, DD said (paraphrase)
that LV wouldn't be happy to have a servant so indebted to Harry, and
yet the Debt doesn't seem to prevent Peter from doing exactly what LV
wants and we are not told what it's supposed to do anyway. It didn't
prevent Peter from hurting Harry or from helping LV to prepare Harry's
death. So what does it do exactly??

Also-September-19 wrote:
"The problem with your (very very clever) idea of Snape transfering
the debt to DD and then repaying it with saving DD from the curse of
the ring (whatever that was) - is that it doesn't explain DD's
absolute certainty about Snape throughout the book. He doesn't
hesitate. (& we see with his treatment and opinion of Tom Riddle
that he's perfectly capable of having reservations about someone, and
still giving them the benefit of the doubt, but, as Harry says, not
really trusting them.) I see no sign of these reservations about
Snape."

Del replies:
Actually... There are two little episodes that do make me wonder
whether DD didn't start to lose faith in Snape during the year.

The first one is the much-talked-about Row in the Forest that Hagrid
overheard. It went something like that, according to Hagrid:

"I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an'
maybe he - Snape - didn' wan' ter do it any more (...) it sounded like
Snape was feelin' a bit overworked, tha's all - anyway, Dumbledore
told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all there was to
it. Pretty firm with him. An' then he said summat abou' Snape makin'
investigations in his house, in Slytherin."

I kept the original account, because I wanted to underline that this
is Hagrid speaking. IOW, *this is not a first-hand account by the
narrator*. It's coloured by what Hagrid *thinks* was happening. And we
know for a fact that Hagrid *never* imagined that Snape could betray
DD, because when Harry told him that Snape had killed DD, he flatly
refused to believe it. So could it be that Hagrid heard the words
right, but completely misunderstood their context and sub-text?

What if instead of being "overworked", Snape's tone was in fact
challenging? What if Snape was basically telling DD: "now that I don't
*have* to anymore, maybe I don't *want* to be your spy anymore?" What
if Snape was basically telling DD that he wanted out of the Order 
business altogether? And what if DD was cornered into using the "you
agreed to do it" card because he realised that Snape was just as
unresponsive to the morality card as he used to be 20 years ago? The
fact that DD spoke "flat out" to Snape, that he was "pretty firm" with
him, indicates to me that this wasn't a conversation between a mentor
and his trusted aide. It was a conversation between two people linked
by a business agreement, or a promise, but *not* a common goal and
understanding. DD offered no encouragement, no understanding, no help,
not even morally. He just told Snape to do the job he'd agreed to do.
Pretty cold IMO, like an employer talking to his mercenary.

I also wonder if Hagrid got the reference to "Snape's house" right. He
immediately explains that all the Heads have been asked to investigate
their Houses, but what if DD was talking of a completely different
kind of house? 

The second episode that makes me wonder, is towards the end of the
book, when Harry goes to DD just before they go Horcrux-hunting. Harry
confronts DD with his fresh knowledge that the Hog's Head eavesdropper
was Snape, and demands to know how DD can trust Snape. Here goes:

"'Professor... how can you be *sure* Snape's on our side?'

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was
trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, 'I am
sure. I trust Severus Snape completely.'"

DD *does* hesitate, for the very first time. And he doesn't even
answer the question. He just asserts that he "trusts" Snape. He
pointedly doesn't give a ghost of a reason as to *why* he does. Could
this be because he doesn't have a single reason to trust Snape
anymore, apart from the fact that he wants to? His answer reminds me
of what many people say when they are told that a friend or a relative
is suspected of a crime: "That's impossible! I *know* they would
*never* do that! I trust them completely!" Is this the situation DD is in?

Of, and of course, there's the pleading by DD when Snape arrives on
the top of the Astronomy Tower. What is DD pleading for exactly? Is he
pleading for Snape to reconsider his newly-chosen path?

So it seems to me that there's a possibility that DD might not be so
sure of Snape after all, in HBP.

Also-September-19 wrote:
"Also, since we know the Dada job is cursed, why would Snape (evil or
good) want it? The only real perk it comes with is a guarenteed exit
from Hogwarts. It's not like the Dada teacher has access to magical
books or object that other professors don't. Or at least I don't
remember that coming up anywhere."

Del replies:
First of all, the perk you mentioned (the guaranteed exit from
Hogwarts) might be *precisely* the one Snape was after all those
years. As for an additional perk, I admit it has never come up, but
there are hints.

1. LV's obsession with the DADA job. I'm sure Tom Riddle was excellent
in pretty much every subject he studied. So why this fixation on the
DADA? Why ask for this particular job twice, if all he really wanted
was a chance to come back to school? Wouldn't it have been a better
idea to offer to fill any vacant post that he was qualified for? That
would have augmented his chances to be hired. But no, he twice
specifically asked for the DADA job.

2. The fact that LV jinxed the DADA post *only*. Why do things
half-heartedly? If LV wanted a chance to get an inside job at Hogwarts
for himself or one of his DEs, why curse only one post? Why not curse
them *all*? If DD had to replace all his staff every few years, that
would give a much better chance to LV to get what he wants. But no, he
focused only on the DADA job.

3. (This one is admittedly pretty weak :-) At the end of CoS, Lockhart
was sent to rescue Ginny *alone*. No other teacher offered to help
him. Granted, it could be that the rest of the staff only wanted to
get rid of him. But it could also be that Lockhart had some special
authority as the DADA teacher.

4. HBP reveals to us that Snape used to *love* Potions. He studied
them in depth, enhanced many of them, *before* he even got to study
them in class, apparently. So why should he be so bothered by the fact
that he can't be DADA teacher? The guy loves his subject, he even
loves the place (he kept his office in the dungeon even after getting
the DADA job). And when he *finally* gets the DADA job, do we see him
do *anything* out of the ordinary? Nope! He apparently doesn't jump on
the opportunity to curse and hex his students (except for Harry, of
course :-), he doesn't make any ripple worth reporting to us the
readers. So *why* did he want the job in the first place, especially
since he must have known about the curse?? I can see only two
possibilities: he wanted out of Hogwarts but couldn't just hand in his
resignation for some reason, so he was hoping the curse would do it
for him; or he was after something that only the DADA Master position
can give.

---

Amiable Dorsai wrote, in message 139180:
"What if it just comes down to this: As a consequence of Snape's
indirect collusion in killing James, he is forced to avenge him? Or
to help James' son do so? That is, only by colluding in Voldemort's
destruction can Snape be rid of the debt and its (so far,
hypothetical) consequences."

Del replies:
Interesting idea! However, I have a murder-splits-the-soul problem
here. If a Life Debt, under specific circumstances, can force an
indebted person to commit a murder, thus splitting their soul, then it
should be considered Dark Magic. But nobody, not even DD, seems to
have any problem with it. So, I don't know.

---

Luckdragon wrote, in message 139201:
"Perhaps it is simply a moral concept which really does not need to be
upheld or has no bearing on an immoral person."

Del replies:
It's possible, of course, but I doubt it, because if it were, then JKR
wouldn't make such a fuss out of the fact that Snape and Peter (two
pretty immoral people) owe a Life Debt to the good guys. If a Life
Debt is something that you can simply dishonorably choose to dismiss,
then there's pretty much no point in Snape and Peter owing one.

JMO, of course :-)

Del