Harry's character development

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 139495

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Cathy Drolet" <cldrolet at s...> 
wrote:
> CathyD:
> > I have days when I'm surprised the kid can find his way to the 
> Quidditch pitch without signposts.  Well, no, maybe not the 
> Quidditch pitch .... 
> 
> Geoff:
> >I hate to say it but that seems a rather patronising remark....
> 
> CathyD:
> I presume my quote above is what you're bothered by, Geoff?  Or 
perhaps it was the "I thought, well, 
> certainly more than Harry who's found out nothing"?  


Geoff:
It was your remark about the Qudditch pitch that I felt was, at the 
least, unkind.


CathyD: 
> Dumbledore says: "Secondly, the castle is a stronghold of ancient 
magic.  *Undoubtedly* Voldemort had penetrated many more of the 
secrets than most of the students who pass through the place..." 
(HBP 404 Can Ed)  From what I have read, Harry has never, ever, even 
thought about the ancient magic in and around the school, nevermind 
tried to penetrate any of it. There is no evidence, anywhere that I 
can see, that shows otherwise.  Hermione has to remind him, 
constantly, of the simplest fact that a person can't Apparate into 
or out of the Castle and grounds.


Geoff:
Well, Hermione reminds most people constantly, of the simplest 
facts - there, that's me being, at the least, unkind. :-)


CathyD:
> As to my opinion of - oops, I was going to write Frodo...now see 
what you've done ;-) ...Harry, I think he's a bit of an idot. He 
puts very little effort into his homework, pays little attention in 
class, accomplishes learning only at dire need (Patronus, throwing 
off the Imperius curse, or when cramming, with Hermione's notes, for 
exams), never really tried to learn Occlumency (apart from what JKR 
says that he would not accomplish it anyway) despite how important 
it was for him to do so, yet he claims "it seems as though *I always 
knew* I'd have to face him in the end..."  Seems pretty stupid to me 
although that is just my opinion.  The only thing he has really 
excelled at is Quidditch.  Of course, maybe he's going to fly past 
Voldie on his broom and plant a big wet kiss on his face and Voldie 
will disintegrate, but somehow I don't think so.

Geoff:
Come on, the guy is a teenager. When I was Harry's age, I say 
without being boastful that I was considered one of the brightest 
kids on the block - my exam results bore that out. But I often 
didn't put as much effort into my work as I ought to. I am 
intellectually rather lazy and, as you suggest with Harry in your 
remark above, I often only learned at dire need but still retain the 
ability to pick up information at great speed when the crisis breaks
(!)

One of my teachers said that I was highly intelligent but lacked 
common sense; my wife still agrees with that analysis.


Geoff:
> >>Harry also spotted Peter Pettigrew on the map - 
> and told Lupin


CathyD:
> When?  It never happened in my book.  

....Lupin found Peter on the map the night Ron was dragged into the 
Whomping Willow by Sirius and Harry and Hermione followed.  He had 
the map open on his desk and saw HRH going to Hagrid's Hut then saw 
Pettigrew with them when they left.  I honestly can't fiind anywhere 
that says Harry saw Pettigrew on the map and told Lupin about it.


Geoff:
My apologies. I had a bad attack of movie contamination. I am taking 
the relevant tablets.

Geoff:
> >>Give credit where it's due. Even heroes work in partnerships. 
where 
> would Frodo have got to without the Fellowship and, later, Sam?


CathyD: 
> You mean, where would Sam have been without Frodo, surely?  Sam 
is, after all, the one who got the ring to Mount Doom and Gollum was 
the one who destroyed it.  Frodo only carried the ring; Sam was the 
real hero, IMO, and wouldn't have needed Frodo at all if he'd had 
the ring himself.  He should have left Frodo in the Tower at Cirith 
Ungol and gone on alone.  Only then Frodo would have been killed 
when the ring was destroyed along with all that was made by its 
power.  Of course, then we wouldn't have had that sappy, drivelly, 
off to the Undying Lands, bit at the end of the book.


Geoff:
Cathy, are you really suggesting that Sam should have kept the Ring 
and taken it himself and left Frodo to the tender mercies of Sauron?

Sauron would have had the truth out of Frodo and had the whole of 
the Nazgul on Sam's trail before you could say "Elbereth 
Gilthoniel", The whole of the march to the Black Gate by Aragorn 
with the army of Gondor would not have staved off the final 
irrevocable disaster for Middle-Earth. 

Geoff
Written from a long weekend in Cardiff playing catch up on messages 
when I get near my host's computer!