Academic dishonesty.

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 139592


colebiancardi intro: as eggplant has only snipped one liners, I cannot
snip anymore from the response, as the whole meaning of the thread
will be lost.


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "eggplant107" <eggplant107 at h...>
wrote:
> "colebiancardi" <muellem at b...> wrote:
> 
> > I don't believe in the theory that
> > what one does should be measured
> > against what other people have done. 
> 
> That may be the root of our disagreement because I do believe in that
> theory, I think it is how to tell good people from bad people.

again, you've missed the whole point of a personal moral compass.  It
has nothing to do with how to tell good from bad people.  Let me
rephrase - Other people's actions and misdeeds should not be the green
light for Harry to disregard what he knows is right.  How does LV,
Umbridge & Snape have anything to do with Harry not returning the book
when asked?  Nothing.  It is called your own moral compass.  Harry is
not a 2 year old - he knows right from wrong at this point and time.
 
> 
> > he [Harry] should have handed the
> > book to Snape when asked.
> 
> I would not have done that. I know of no one would have done that. I
> can think of no reason to respect Snape's demand to the slightest
> extent.   

Hermoine would have.  Ron would have.  Neville would have - many
students would have given Snape the proper respect that as a Professor
he commands.  Dumbledore and others are always reminding Harry to give
Snape respect - they are always correcting him and making him say
Professor Snape.

> 
> > He never told any authority figure
> > at Hogwarts about it
> 
> To my mind by book 6 Harry Potter is an authority figure, an authority
> figure superior to any other now that Dumbledore has been murdered.

Again, unless you have canon that Harry knows about Dumbledore's
*murder* at this point in the book, he cannot be a superior authority
figure.  And don't split hairs, it is not what you think, but what
Rowling has put down for us in the book.  Harry is not an authority
figure - he is still an underage wizard and still learning.  Authority
figures could have been McGonagall or Dumbledore - it didn't need to
be Snape.

> 
> > Snape calls him [Harry] a liar & cheat 
> 
> If a murderer does not approve of my actions I would consider that a
> high complement.

Again, you disregarded my comment - Harry does not know at this point
in the book that Snape is a murderer.  And personally, regardless of
the position one may take of Snape at the END of this book, Snape is
correct - Harry lied & cheated.

> 
> > If Harry had to make a potion on
> > his own, he couldn't do it. 
> 
>  Nor could any other student, even Hermione. 

but that is not the point, is it?  Snape could have at that age.  You
stated Harry *deserved* the book - I stated he deserved an education.
 Which he didn't get by using other people's(Snape's) notes.

> 
> > Harry is just starting out
> 
> And some part of Harry's mind must realize he's most likely just about
> to end and he will never be an old man.

And that excuses his misdeeds?  Wow.  Didn't know that gave someone
carte blanche to do whatever they wanted to do, because they thought
they are going to die young.

>  
> > He [Harry] needs to dampen his hatred
> 
> That is the conventional wisdom, it's very very politically correct
> and even JKR may agree, but I do not. I think that in the proper time
> and place hatred is as valid and useful an emotion as any other. 
> 

It isn't politically correct - it is a fact.  And you may not agree,
but Rowling does(her whole love theme) and she is the creator of these
books.  Blind hatred stunts the emotional capacity for one to grow
into a decent person.  We have Snape as a prime example.  He is(IMHO)
a person working for the good side, but he is a nasty man.  Do you
want Harry to be like Snape?  Because if he continues down this path,
he will ultimately become like him.  I don't believe for one NY minute
that Rowling wishes Harry not to have moral fiber and a moral compass.
 If everyone was doing something *bad*, would you do it?  Does their
behavior excuse your behavior?  I think not.

colebiancardi
(who wishes posters wouldn't just cut a sentence here & there, as the
whole meaning of my post is lost - which can only mean that the
responder has no clue what I was trying to post)