Snape's attack on Flitwick/Forgiveness

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 139626

 

bboyminn:

I see the thread has run on quite long, but no one  seems to have
addressed this basic question head-on. 

I think Snape  took Flitwick out of the game, by whatever means,
because once he discovered  there were Death Eaters in the castle, he
knew he was in a very awkward  situation. If he intended to fight the
DE's without seeming to do so, he had  to act alone. He couldn't have
Flitwick tagging along behind him. This was a  situation that require
great stealth as well as great finesse. 

He had  to either covertly fight the DE's, or he had to get them under
control and  get them out of the castle without compromising his
position with either  Voldemort or Dumbledore. So, again, he couldn't
have Flitwich tagging along  behind him.
 
Julie:
Er, this is just what I said! But only a post or two before yours,
so you probably missed it (especially if you read digest like me). 
 

bboyminn:
I really think it is as simple as that. Certainly, at that  moment, his
concern was for maintaining his cover, getting Draco out of  trouble,
and getting the DE's out of the castle. At that time, I don't think  he
knew what was in store for him when he met Dumbledore at the top of
the  tower. That was a spontaneous event.

It's already clear to everyone that  I don't think Snape and Dumbledore
conspired in advance toward Dumbledore's  death. Instead, I think, in a
manner of speaking, they conspired on the spot,  and Dumbledore make
Snape aware that all was lost, and Snape took the  opportunity to turn
a bad situation to his advantage.

Don't get the  idea that I am completely excusing Snape. Even under the
best possible  outcome and the best possible circumstances, Snape
killed Dumbledore, and he  will have to pay some price for that.
Although, I don't forsee that price  being 'murder'. I see it more as
manslaughter, though it may not be legally  right, my point is that
Snape will pay for his crime because there is no way  to erase it. But
I also think, that Snape will explain it away to the point  where he
won't be charge with the cold-blooded murder that it appears to  be.
 
Julie says:
Why would Snape have to explain it away? If he killed Dumbledore
for justifiable reasons, i.e., for a greater good, and, effectively 
speaking, with Dumbledore's permission, then it is what it is. 
Not cold-blooded murder, but something else, maybe manslaughter
or even justifiable homicide. 
 
I do agree that Snape will pay though, if only by his own personal
suffering over killing the one person who loved him and who he loved 
in return (as mentor/friend, fatherfigure/son, whatever). 
 
bboyminn:
I think that was the foundation behind Snape chastising Harry  for
calling him a Coward. Snape did a very brave thing, at least in  his
eyes, in killing Dumbledore. He did what must be done to bring  about
Voldemort's ultimate defeat at some point in the indeterminate  future.
But to accomplish that future task, he has to do a terrible thing  for
which he can never escape punishment. His courage wasn't in  killing
Dumbledore. It was in being willing to commit a terrible crime, and  in
doing so, accept the punishment, knowing that his personal  sacrifice
would bring about an ultimate greater good. In a sense, Snape, and  by
his eventual punishment, is a casualty of war.

Again, I'm not  really defending Snape or saying he should be forgiven,
but if we take the  position that Dumbledore was already dying, and
Snape simply worked that  death to his advantage, then while we can
never forgive him stealing one  second of Dumbledore's life, we can at
least understand the sacrifice they  both made.


Julie says:
I doubt it matters to Snape if we forgive him ;-) What would matter 
is that Dumbledore forgives him, which I believe DD does by his  own
complicity. And also, though Snape doesn't recognize it yet, that 
Harry forgive him, because it is Harry who was most damaged by
Snape's betrayal of his parents (unintentional as it might have 
been, and certainly a lesser sin than Peter's more direct betrayal
and Voldemort's murdering them). 
 
And I know some people can't believe Snape would treat Harry 
so badly if what he really needs is Harry's forgiveness. But I can. 
Every time Snape looks at Harry, he sees not only the similarity
to James, not only the uncomfortable sensation of looking into
Lily's eyes, but a constant reminder of his complicity in the brutal 
murder of both. He must hate it, and resent Harry because of it,
even while he assists Harry in various ways, either as part of his
own penance, or because Dumbledore demands it. But he doesn't
have to be nice about it, or so he figures, and so he isn't.
 
Snape may figure it is his acts in assisting Harry to prepare  and
eventually defeat Voldemort (and in keeping Harry alive long enough
to get to that point) which will earn him redemption. But I don't think 
it is. It's Harry choosing to forgive Snape his sins (not only  for telling
Voldemort about the prophecy, but also for taking all his resentment 
and pain out on Harry) that will allow Snape to not only earn his 
redemption, but to finally achieve a true measure of peace (which is 
nothing more or less than healing a damaged soul, I should think). 
 
Harry doesn't *have* forgive Snape, of course. He doesn't have to
recognize Snape's acts of good--working with DD, saving Harry 
and his friends several times, helping Harry get rid of the Horcruxes
(or whatever Snape may do in Book 7), etc--as suitable atonement
for his numerous bad acts. But Harry will. Because he's the hero,  and
the hero takes the high road (forgiveness), not the low road  (vengeance).
That is, and will be in the end, the defining difference between  Harry
and Snape, who is not the villain, but the anti-hero (or failed hero)  to
Harry's hero. 
 
 
IMO, 
 
Julie 



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