Sirius' declaration of loyalty in the Shrieking Shack

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 139634

> > 
> > Alla: 
> > But I am not talking about Sirius' declaration in restrospect. 
> > I am talking about what he said in the Shack, that is all. 

Magda: 
> I have no idea what you're talking about here.  Nothing has changed
> in the series since Sirius' declaration in the shack, therefore "in
> retrospect" is irrelevant.

Alla:

OK, I am confused again. I am just saying that Sirius' wilingness to 
sacrifice his life for Peter is expressed AFTER Godric Hollow murder 
is occurred, therefore all we can judge here is Sirius' intentions. 
Am I making any sense?

As far as we know, we only heard Sirius' intentions being expressed 
here. What happened at Godric Hollow, already happened. Sirius says 
it twelve years later.




> 
> > Alla:
> > I am just talking about how that defines Sirius' character for 
me 
> > and to me it 
> > defines him into very positive light, noble light, if you may.

Magda: 
> I don't see why.  

Alla:

Because I consider willingness to sacrifice oneself for the friend 
to be the wonderful quality of one's character, that is why.


> 

Magda:
> Hold on - you're changing the rules.  No one said anything about
> "choosing his own life over the life of his friend".  That was 
never
> the situation in the series and it hasn't been discussed up to 
now. 
> I really don't see how you came up with that.

Alla:

Oh, that was just my little imaginary hypothetical, or maybe more 
than imaginary, but never mind that :-) That was indeed just a side 
speculation.


 
Magda:
> Well, I'm just going by what Sirius himself says in the shack about
> the logic behind making Peter the SK (which took place before 
Sirius
> realized Peter was a traitor).  Unless you think Sirius is lying, I
> have no choice but to take him at his word.  

Alla:

No, I don't think Sirius is lying, on the contrary, I believe that 
Sirius had been proven truthful several times during  the series, so 
I don't think he is lying.

BUT I don't think that one contradicts each other. I think it is 
perfectly possible that Sirius thought that Peter was weaker wizard 
than him academically( that was certainly a mistake) AND at the same 
kind liked him as a person.



> > Alla:
> > Who knows, maybe one day such person decides to live up to his 
> > former friends expectations.


Magda: 
> Not unless he sees something in it for himself.  


Alla:

Could be, but JKR did mention that Peter's life debt will be 
important, so maybe Peter will pay life debt, even if it won't bring 
him immediate benefit.

Oh, I just want to add to make myself absolutely clear that despite  
the fact that I sympathise with Sirius' character a lot, I really 
could care less as to whether Peter would achieve redemption or not, 
honestly. 

BUT after HBP, I believe that Peter became much likelier candidate 
for redemption storyline, if there is to be any, than Snape. It is 
just how I read the  text.  Of course I am prepared to eat a nice 
crow, as always :-)


Carodave:
<snip>
Sirius *would* have died before betraying his friend Peter. Had he
stopped to examine Peter's character (or lack thereof) more closely,
maybe he would have realized that Peter (the rat!) did not have the
heart and bravery required to reciprocate. However, it wasn't
stupidity - just Sirius being rash.

Alla:

Yes, it is possible, but all that I am saying that regardless of 
whether Peter had  the heart and bravery required to reciprocate, 
Sirius willingness to die speaks highly of him, Sirius " sense of 
honor" per speaks highly of him, that is all.

I am NOT even talking about practical reciprocation of Sirius 
intentions and going back to his declaration in the Shack, I am  
saying that it was essential in order for us to understand the heart 
of  this character, that is all.


JMO of course,

Alla