What mistakes Dumbledore made? Re: Loyalty & Trust

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 139816

> Alla wrote:
> > > Besides, we have quite a few examples of Dumbledore trusting 
the 
> > > wrong people to fulfill DADA position.
> > > 
> > 
> > Pippin:
> > Oh, it doesn't look so bad now. We know that the position is 
> jinxed,
> > apparently to bring out the worst in whoever holds it. How many 
of
> > us would still have our positions in a year under conditions like
> > that?<snips of the examples of DADA teachers>
 
 
Alla:
 
I am afraid it DOES still look bad to me, Pippin. :-) Dumbledore 
invited at least three people, who were wrong to be  invited from 
the beginning, curse or not. OK, Quirell was hired earlier, but 
still Dumbledore, IMO did not know that Voldie was hiding in his 
head.
 
I am also not sure what do you mean by Lockhart was intended to be 
the victim of the curse. Intended by Dumbledore?
 
And of course we have Fake!Moody.
> 
> 
> Pippin:
> > Snape has many times made Harry unhappy. He has threatened to
> > do worse. But when has Snape *ever* between the time  he 
returned 
> > to Hogwarts and the events on the tower, endangered Harry or
> > any other child? We can't fault him for the failure of the 
> occlumency
> > lessons any more, not if we're taking things at face value, 
right?
 
Alla:

Sure we can, Pippin. :-) Remember Harry feeling worse after the 
lessons? Harry may be damaged to learn Occlumency, but I am doubting 
that Occlumency per se made him hurt that much. JMO of course.

Oh, and  this is also the example of Snape endangering Harry, IMO, 
not to mentioning that awfully suspicious time difference which Neri 
described so wonderfully.
And of course I think that Snape endangered Neville plenty of times 
in order for Snape to become Neville's biggest fear.
 
 
 
> Pippin: 
> > And at face value, a shove that knocks a boy to the ground and
> > a jarfull of cockroaches that misses is just a shove and a miss, 
> not
> > an attempt at murder.
> 
Alla:
 
Sure it is not attempt at murder, but this is an attempt to 
physically hurt a student, just as a throwing curse at Harry at the 
end of HBP.
 
And we also have "full blown murder" , which of course I take at 
face value too. :-)
 
 
> Pippin: 
> > It seems to me that "face value" theorists have to extrapolate 
> > just as much as the rest of us to come up with a consistent 
> > position. :-)
> > 
> 
> 
Alla:
 
Well, I am not sure about other face value theorists, but my 
position is that  the closer we are to  the end, more and more 
things are indeed to be meant taken at face value.

JKR after all said  that there are many answers in HBP, not all of 
them, but many. I doubt that what she meant that she hidden many new 
things from us. One book left after all, only one book.

As to level of extrapolation... I am afraid I  have to bow to your 
greatness in that department. :-)


> houyhnhnm:
<snip>
> I take Dumbledore's confession of his "mistakes" as just another
> expression of his whimsical, self-deprecating style, a facade 
behind
> which exists a supremely powerful and self-confident wizard.

Alla:

I take them as declaration of mistakes, especially since JKR said 
that Dumbledore does make mistakes and big ones too.


Houyhmmmm:
> Yes, Harry had a miserable 9 3/4 years with the Dursleys, but has 
it
> damaged him beyond repair?  Dumbledore doesn't seem to think so. 
> Would Harry really have been better off as the pampered little 
prince
> in a wizarding foster family?  Or in danger from the Lestranges or
> other DEs after his parents were killed or from Voldemort himself
> every summer after his regeneration?

Alla:

I hated  "he is better away from WW" explanation. That is why I was 
incredibly happy that JKR does not mention this explanation anywhere 
in OOP and HBP, personally I think that this is one of the 
occasions, which Lupinlore categorises as  "JKR backed away from the 
message she did not intend to send". :-)
No, I don't think that it would be good enough to justify what Harry 
endured at the hands of Dursleys, what Dumbledore FINALLY called 
what it was in HBP.

"he has known nothing but neglect and often cruelty at your hands" - 
p.55

BUT I don't hold it against Dumbledore anymore, because as I 
mentioned earlier the level of contempt he showed to Dursleys in 
chapter 3 was enough to convince me that he did only because he 
wanted Harry to survive.



Houyhmmm:
> If Sirius had been allowed his freedom, might he not have died all 
the
> sooner, and in a way that compromised the Order?

Alla:

Or he would have escaped the depression, being stucked in the House 
he longed to escape during his youth and maybe was feeling better 
psychologically and would have been able to live longer.

I see no justification to what Dumbledore did to Sirius, I mean, of 
course he wanted to keep Sirius alive, as he says in OOP, but IMO he 
demonstrated such deep misunderstanding of Sirius' nature, who is 
very active person, that yes I think Dumbledore committed grave 
mistake.

He meant well though, I will concede that much.


Houyhmmmm:
 Dumbledore frequently had to choose between two
> problematic options and, it seems to me, for the most he chose 
wisely.

Alla:

He may have chosen wisely when he did not need to figure out the 
psychological issues of his soldiers or his teachers, when he did 
needed it, I think he did not always do a good job.

 
JMO of course,
 
Alla.