either must die at the hand of the other, Contradiction or Clue?

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 139846

Saraquel and Valky,

I refer now to this post: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/139832
'ESE Slughorn and Horcruxe Thoughts'

Jessie suggests at one point that the soul-part contained in the 
horcrux goes into the person destroying it.  She (he?) also suggests 
that Harry was made into an accidental horcrux at the destruction of 
VoldyI, embuing him with 1/7 of Voldysoul, leaving Voldy himself with 
1/7 of his own soul.

Aside from the deliberate making of a horcrux, which I imagine would 
be as dark and complicated a ritual as the GoF graveyard scene, I 
can't discount the possibility that a 'horcrux' (got to use 
quotemarks, if it isn't deliberate, can it use that name?) *can* be 
created accidentally.  While most of what we have in the lines of 
technical and academic advances comes from intense study and 
experimentation, some things were stumbled upon and worked.  I can 
imagine some of the magic in the Potterverse also springing from 
observation of accidental phenomena.  *Pure* speculation here!  But, 
could the origins of the horcrux ritual have come from observing an 
accidental 'horcrux' being formed?  And no, I don't know how this 
could be observed, any more than I can imagine how any wizard, no 
matter how Dark, coming up with the idea to entomb a soul piece 
without observing it being done in nature, so to speak.

Headdesk moment, definitely.  So I'll pretend that some academic in a 
shroud is working on that part of it in an ivory tower someplace.

Jessie goes on to discuss the difference between Harry destroying the 
diary without much trouble overall, vs. Dumbledore's withered arm.  I 
probably should say that, while Harry had to fight off a Basilisk, 
and almost died from the venom, his body remained intact; no magical 
explosion, no withering of parts, and other than the invasion of the 
poison which was healed by Fawkes, he was able to move on in a normal 
state.  Opposed to Dumbledore, who has clearly and forver lost the 
use of his one hand.

Someone else has suggested that Harry will have less trouble than 
Dumbledore did, based on the same two pieces of evidence, farther 
back in the HBP discussion, concluding that Harry is the most 
suitable person to go in search of the horcruxes.  Makes sense to me, 
also based on the evidence.

Jessie goes on to suggest that when the diary is destroyed, the 
Voldysoul inside of it goes into Harry, giving him 2/7 of Voldemort's 
soul, while Voldemort still only has one.  This would make sense from 
a utilitarian standpoint.  The person with a part of the same soul 
may destroy a horcrux without problem (recognition of the part in the 
horcrux?), keeping other comers out, while at the same time, the soul 
fragment is released and goes back into the nearest body at hand.  
Dumbledore says that Voldemort won't know when a horcrux is 
destroyed.  He may not even know that the piece of soul will transfer 
to the nearest warm body, but then, he might.  That could be part of 
his anger with Lucius for beginning the chain of events in CoS.  When 
did he know that the diary horcrux was destroyed?  Before or after 
GoF: Creepshow in the Graveyard?

*IF* the soul fragment goes into whatever's nearest (not necessarily 
warm, just living), could it be akin to the Voldysoul that lived in 
the animals of Albania if not reunited with its own fellow soulpart?  
Aware, but weakened, yet sapping the strength of its host?  The only 
snag to this is the idea of a Harry!Horcrux.  Though, the scar, if a 
horcrux instead of Harry himself, placed in a liminal setting (the 
skin, barrier between the inner and outer person) could both protect 
the body Harry from the sapping of strength, as well as expose it in 
a controlled setting to the soul fragment, creating some sort of link 
at the same time.  Very speculative now, not fully formed.

And, I cringe to get into the whole 'what is and isn't a horcrux' 
debate as well.  I really do cringe!

Then, Dumbledore.  We know that Voldysoul can occupy, while killing, 
a living host.  And I can't doubt that this reflects the fate of any 
loosed piece of soul, since it's canon.  We just have no canon to 
support or refute what might happen to that body, aside from 
accelerated death.  We don't know what physical damage is done to the 
host.  We also don't know how soon that host body dies after 
insertion of the soul.  *IF* the released soul fragment occupies the 
nearest living body, then Dumbledore absorbed the part of Voldysoul 
in the ring.  If there is a physical evidence of that, then that 
would be his blackened hand.

(Someone else already mentioned that possibility much earlier, IIRC)

Quirrel.  How long would he have survived his 'possession'?  And was 
it the same thing as outright absorbing the soul fragment?  Or did 
Vapour!Mort merely piggyback on him?  And, did drinking unicorn blood 
help sustain the host body through the year?  Would he have died 
sooner if he didn't have it?  Quirrel, as far as we know, didn't have 
a dead limb marking him as a soul-host.  But he did have Voldyface 
sticking out of the back of his head.  And, we know Quirrel agreed, 
either out of dedication or fear, to be the host.  So could that have 
affected the way his function was revealed?  Did Voldemort have more 
leeway with how he chose to manifest due to the willingness of his 
host?

We've heard from two pieces of Voldysoul, the one that is 
reconstituted as Voldemort, and TR in CoS.  So each piece seems to 
have sentience, and memories from the time of its creation.  Could a 
piece of Voldysoul trapped in the body of a powerful and resisting 
wizard begin to destroy it on the cellular level (I think it would be 
cellular?), evidence DD's hand?  Could it only *manifest* its 
presence on the portion of body corresponding with its part (1/7 of a 
soul, 1/7 of the body *obviously* destroyed)?  And (cringe!) if the 
scar is a horcrux, does that mean that Baby Harry got *less* of a 
soul fragment than Dumbledore?  Given that the soul goes into the 
nearest living body?

Yow.  Am I totally subverting this thread?

Voldysoul had no magic except the power to possess.  Yet, that is a 
power, and a malign power at that.  It kills its host.  Still, I'm 
interested in following the idea that the soul fragment goes into the 
nearest living body (and only a fragment, so a whole soul couldn't do 
this, IMO, though I'm willing to explore and change my opinion on 
that score).

Related, TRsoul seems to have gone back and forth between the diary 
and Ginny.  Destroying the diary left the soul with noplace to go 
(except the nearest living body, which appears to have been Harry at 
that point, if that is true of soul fragments).  That also stopped 
the drain of Ginny's spirit/life essence.  Did Ginny have any 
physical evidence of possession, or did the transitory nature of her 
possession preclude that?

And, still, what about Voldemort's spirit?  I do think it got blown 
away at GH.  Maybe it's the spirit, and not the soul, that rejoins 
the 'ether'?

I'm getting very lost in the swamp here.  But the post I menitoned 
above, got me thinking about this discussion from a slightly 
different angle.  As I said, this isn't fully formed, certainly not 
fleshed out.  But, something to consider, IMO.

What do you think?

Ceridwen.