Characters and the revelation model (Was: Re: Depth?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 139902

> >>Nora: 
> The larger the impact of every scene--which means that a minimal 
> amount of information can also cause maximal disruption.  The less 
> information you give, as well, the more the reader has to fill in  
> the blank on his own--and the more likely he is to make mistakes.

Betsy Hp:
So James really *is* retiring and shy? <g>  Yes, the best way to 
build up to a big reveal is to leave blank spaces and allow the 
reader to assume.  But the author is unwise to lie.  And you seem to 
be suggesting that JKR lied.  That we should ignore everything that 
occured during the pensieve flashback.  That seems...wasteful to me.  
If it's all untrue, why write it to begin with?

> >>Nora: 
> As well, 'normal' changes over time, from when characters are 15 to 
> when they're 21 and married with kid.  Open wartime could 
> change 'normal' significantly.

Betsy Hp:
Was Sirius completely unrecognizable in the pensieve?  Was Remus?  
Was Snape, for that matter?  Is the Harry of PS/SS so totally 
different from the Harry of HBP? And is the man who walked bravely to 
his death in order to buy time for his family so completely different 
from the brash James of the pensieve, or even the shadowy hero of the 
Prank?

> >>Nora:
> So, here's a character question for you: why have we gotten such 
> wildly contradictory information about Peter?  Several characters 
> denigrate his abilities and tell us that he's an incompetent, but 
> I'll be damned if Peter hasn't been one of the most effective DEs 
> running, in any number of ways. 

Betsy Hp:
In a very "Peter" way though, yes?  And doesn't the "cult of 
personality" worshiping boy of the pensieve fit with the cringing man 
in Snape's study?  And it's interesting that he searched out 
Voldemort only *after* his cozy little hidey-hole was exposed.

Peter, though not as creatively clever as James and Sirius, *does* 
manage to keep up with his friends.  So I'm not surprised at his 
level of competence.  I certainly wouldn't call the information on 
Peter contradictory.  

> >>Nora:
> Is this incompetent character construction, or are we (and maybe   
> other characters) being given the hints that things are not quite  
> what we think they are?

Betsy Hp:
Peter is a hard one to judge by, because we already know what he will 
become.  We worked backwords with him.  But if we take other 
characters whose story arcs are complete I think JKR shows that she 
doesn't rely on cheats to maintain the element of surprise.  Was the 
Quirrell reveal, though a surprise, completely out of the blue?  Was 
it a stretch to see Umbridge about to cast an unforgivable on a 
student?  Even Fake!Moody was hinted at, IMO.  (Frankly, the hardest 
part of the Fake!Moody reveal for me was dealing with the real Moody.)

> >>Nora: 
> Likewise, we have some of the same contradictory information about 
> other characters who we get comparatively little of in the present 
> tense.  It's up to each reader to untangle the mess for himself,   
> and possibly muck up grandly in the process.  Let's take James:    
> arrogant obnoxious berk becomes the man who Lily marries and dies   
> for his son.  Some have postulated an essential continuity of      
> character--but some have argued for a dramatic and radical change   
> in him.  JKR could drop either option into the mix at the moment.

Betsy Hp:
JKR certainly leaves enough holes to allow a reader to go astray.  
But I really don't think she cheats in what she does definitively 
state.  With James, obviously there's a change from the boy we see in 
the pensieve and the future head boy.  But I'm quite confident that 
the change will not be so drastic as to render the boy in the 
pensieve a falsehood.  His character will maintain continuity, he'll 
just take it in a more positive direction.

> >>Nora: 
> Correspondingly, we could be given information that really modifies 
> our view of the Marauders' friendship, and could lead to our 
> perspective on it being more of a solid, lasting, and deep thing.  
> I hope I've made it clear how easily this could be done--if it's   
> what she's interested in.

Betsy Hp:
I'm quite sure the friendship between James and Sirius was solid.  
But we've already been shown that Peter was a different story.  It 
will take a whole hell of a lot to suddenly turn him noble and true.  
And since I doubt book 7 will be "Harry Potter and the Redemption of 
Wormtail" I have a hard time seeing that happening. Remus, of course, 
still has his issues.  I'll be interested in seeing where JKR takes 
him.  He has yet to demonstrate true strength of character, IMO (he's 
still the boy sitting tight-lipped under the tree), but that moment 
could well be coming.  (In a sense Remus is JKR's other dark horse.) 

> >>Nora: 
> -Nora thinks, from a literary point of view, that it would be both 
> hilarious and ballsy if Spinner's End was mostly Snape telling the 
> truth

Betsy Hp:
Well that's because you don't like him, Nora! <g>  You're strangely 
immune to the Snape-mojo.  (And Snape was telling a good bit of the 
truth in Spinner's End.  It's the best way to disguise the lie. <g>)

Betsy Hp