Depth? Things to take on their face value (Was: Sirius' loyalty)

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 139921

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...> 
wrote:
> Marianne: 
> > I don't see this as a negation of DD's life work.  He's someone 
who 
> > has valued people as individuals and recognized that society's 
> > tendency to lump people into stereotypical groups is wrong.  
He's 
> > recognized that people may strive their utmost to achieve the 
best 
> > that they can, and thay they may still fall short. He shows that 
to 
> > forgive can be a lifeline to people trying to turn their lives 
> > around. 
> 
> Jen: This is all true, too. I tried to address some of the reasons 
why 
> I felt his life's work was something a little bit different in my 
> paragraph to vmonte. Dumbledore's ability to value people as 
> individuals and offer forgiveness and second chances was something 
> that sprung out of his work at Hogwarts, it wasn't the work 
itself. 
> Some people save others one at a time, but Dumbledore attempted to 
> save the community by bringing together a disparate group of the 
WW 
> elite and the WW outcasts and offering a place to live together 
safely 
> and work out their differences. A betrayl by someone like Crouch!
Moody 
> or Umbridge, who came in for one year, is one thing. Betrayl by 
Snape, 
> who lived and worked there for 16 years and was someone Dumbledore 
> depended on to take the high road, not for him but for all the 
people 
> and creatures protected by him, is quite another. The idea he 
rolled 
> the dice on Snape for 16 long years and never once felt a hint of 
who 
> Snape truly was is mind-boggling. Unless, as you say, Snape simply 
> finally gave in to his darker side and it wasn't apparent until 
the 
> moment on the tower. Which would be even more baffling.

Marianne:

But, for most of those 16 years it didn't matter. There was no 
corporeal Voldemort, no DE activity.  Let's assume that Snape came 
to DD because of Voldemort's orders.  Voldemort is vaporized at 
Godric's Hollow.  Snape avoids punishment for his DE past chiefly 
through DD's intercession.  Then what?  It makes sense to me that 
Snape might decide that a position at Hogwarts was not such a bad 
deal.  And for the next 13 or so years, that's what Snape was.  A 
teacher at Hogwarts.  No need to revel in his dark past or to reveal 
any more of it. I think what he told Bellatrix at Spinner's End was 
probably quite true.  He thought Voldemort was dead and not coming 
back.  

Looking at it in that way I think that the question of how well 
Snape may have fooled Dumbledore becomes somewhat less mind-
boggling. There would have been no active deceit going on for over a 
decade.  

I understand better your thoughts on DD's work to mend and protect 
his society. And, I agree - the smaller betrayals of Crough!Moody 
and Umbridge are of a different magnitude than that of Snape, if 
indeed he is ESE or OFH.  I'm not convinced that Snape is ESE.  
But, I'm also not convinced that DD couldn't have been mistaken in 
his trust in Snape.  

Marianne