[HPforGrownups] Re: Dealing with Dementors: Harry v Snape, Love v Happy

[Kemper]

No: HPFGUIDX 139940

On 9/10/05, vmonte <vmonte at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Kemper challenges:
> ... I question whether the skill is tied into love and 
> goodness:
> 
> "'I heard, from my dear friend Tiberius Ogden, that you can produce a
> Patronus? For a bonus point...?' Harry raised his wand, looked 
> directly at Umbridge, and imagined her being sacked. 'Expecto 
> Patronum!'" (OP, 714, US Hard)
> 
> Imagining someone being sacked is not a thought filled with love nor
> goodness. But it sure is a happy thought! Nevertheless, it is a 
> thought rooted in resentment/spite/loathing for Umbridge... who 
> rightly deserves Harry's contempt. Who else could have a Patronus 
> created by imagining a DADA professor being sacked? What if that DADA 
> professor were Lockhart? Lupin? Moody!CrouchJr? and, for sure, 
> Umbridge? I'm guessing Snape. But back to topic: Having Dementors 
> around would make producing a patronus harder, but if a Dementor 
> would have suddenly appeared during after Harry's patronus in his 
> DADA O.W.L., I have no doubt that Harry's Patronus, created
> from a bit of self-righteous contempt, could have successfully 
> charged and scared off that Dementor... easily. Thoughts?
> 
> vmonte:
> I don't know Kemper. If creating an effective patronus were that 
> simple then anyone could do it, no? Harry wasn't really fighting off 
> a dementor during his O.W.L.S. was he? 
> 
> "You made that dementor on the train back off," said Harry suddenly.
> "There are--certain defenses one can use," said Lupin. "But there was 
> only one dementor on the train. The more there are, the more 
> difficult it becomes to resist." (P188, PoA)
> 
> Lupin admits that it gets harder the more dementors there are. How 
> far then can a self-righteous memory take you? ...snip...
> But self-righteous contempt does not explain how Harry was able to 
> knock down the "swarming dementors" at the end of PoA (IMO). It's 
> more than likely that it has to do with the love and goodness that 
> Harry represents/carries.
> 
> "Dementors are among the foulest creatures that walk this earth. They 
> infest the darkest, filthiest places, they glory in decay and 
> despair, they drain peace, hope, and happiness out of the air around 
> them. Get too near a dementor and every good feeling, every happy 
> memory will be sucked out of you." (P187, PoA) 
> 
> Self-righteous contempt is probably all you need to create a 
> messenger patronus. In that case, Snape is more than capable of 
> creating one. 

  Kemper now:
I implied earlier that it would be harder to produce a corporal Patronus 
with Dementors around, but thanks for the Lupin quote to verify that ;-) 
Your quote from PoA got me thinking more. Lupin says, 'There are--certain 
defenses one can use.' Defenses. Plural. Lupin appears to uses his Patronus
 In HBP, we see that Snape has a knack for making, at least potions, better 
than the text book. He invented Sectumsempra. Is it not possible and 
probable that an ESE!Snape or a DDmtat!Snape would improve an existing 
charm/spell or develop one on his own to deal with Dementors that is even 
better than the norm of Expecto Patronum? 
 Harry is open to learning form the Half Blood Prince and is shut to 
learning from Professor Snape: though both taught him about bezoar, it is 
with the HBP that Harry learns it. Harry is at his most resentful regarding 
Snape in his sixth year. It is easy for Harry to disregard what might be an 
excellent spell from Professor Snape. 
 Vivian, how willing do you think Harry would be to try the spell against 
Dementors from the HBP?
 Kemper


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