Thin Air, Choices, and the Earthly/Soulfull Self

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 139992

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Ceridwen" <ceridwennight at h...>
wrote:
> Saraquel:
> *(snip)*
> > Raining – need  an umbrella, just stick out your wand. Do you 
> > think you have to pay in advance – 5 knuts an item, and a fine of 
> > 1 sickle if not returned in 24hours. Or worse, the nearest like 
> > object responds to the call...
> *(snip)*
> 
> Ceridwen:
> I've been going the other way, that the conjuring of objects ... is 
> merely utilizing existant air molecules and transfiguring them into 
> whatever is needed at the time.  A limited  spell, and when the 
> thing is no longer needed (and maintained), it evaporates back into 
> air molecules. ...
> 

bboyminn:

People seem to be looking at this issue as Black or White, one or the
other, when I think the answer is really both. Some things we see are
transported or transferred while other objects are conjured out of the
 'nothingness'. 

Certainly the house-elves are merely transporting/transferring food
from the kitchens where they cook it, up to the house tables above.
When Dumbledore makes tea and cakes appear in Hagrid's hut, he
probably simply transferred them from the kitchens. 

Other objects were probably conjured. Remember, according to our good
friend Albert Einstein matter and energy are interchangable. They are
simply different states of the same essense much like water and ice
are manifestations of the same core essense. So, I suspect Conjuring
is simply a energy to matter conversion similar to the Replicators and
Transporters found in the Star Trek series.

The problem is that when things 'magically' appear in the books, it's
usually not specified as to whether we are witnessing Conjuring or
Transfer Charms. So, when Dumbledore brought the purple sleeping bags
into the Great Hall, we really don't know if he created them or merely
moved them from another location.

However, we do know that Conjured objects are transient, they are
temporary; eventually they spontaneously go back the the 'nothingness'
from which they came. Given the short by variable life of conjured
objects, I would suspect that the sleeping bags were real and moved
from a storage area, while Molly's heavy white sauce was probably
conjured to save a few calories. The chair that Dumbledore /drew/ in
the air for Trelawney was probably conjured while the chair that he
made appear for Harry at his trial was /probably/ a real chair pulled
from some other location. The ropes or lashing created by the
'incarcerous' spell are probably conjured, they would only be need for
an hour or two, so they would need no permanence. The sandwiches that
McGonagall make appear in Snape's office for Harry and Ron were likely
real and merely transferred from the kitchens. It would make little
sense to feel 'air' to hungry children. Can't prove that, and I'm not
ridgedly attached to it, so consider it more of an illustration than
an absolute statement of fact.

So, the answer is BOTH; we see instances of object magically appearing
from both Conjuring and Transfer Spells.


> 
>  Saraquel:
> > Or is it that we have the potential to be anything, and that 
> > through our choices we create a personality and base for what we 
> > are.
> *(snip)*

> Ceridwen:
> 
> I think it's that.  That we actually create ourselves through the 
> choices we make. Our own fear of ridicule or physical harm can stunt 
> our growth through making safe choices, or we can kill ourselves by 
> making risky choices.  But with each choice, we add another block to 
> the pyramid of our self, ...snip..
> 

bboyminn:

I think when we discuss this area we are getting deeply into the area
of metaphysics. This is very abstact thinking. I have always take
Dumbledore comment about 'choices' to mean that what we do with our
abilities tells us more about ourselves than the abilities themselves. 

Harry has some characteristics that are Slytherin-like, something he
greatly fears in himself, but those Slytherin-like abilities mean
nothing because Harry by his very nature and his choices chooses a
very Gryffindor way of life. 

Remember there is a context to Dumbledore's statement. Harry is
worried about his Slytherin-ness and his similarities to Riddle.
Dumbledore is saying, in essense, that those characteristics, real as
they may be, mean nothing because Harry chooses the higher road in life. 

I'm not discounting what other people said, there is validity in their
statements. I'm merely attempting to expand the perspective. In all
likelihood we are all right to some extent, and are simply wise people
looking at different aspects of the elephant. 

> Ceridwen:
>
> And, following the discussion, personality seems to be some facet of 
> the soul.  If you think of a soul as a gemstone with many facets in 
> it, instead of a container, it might resonate more.  Since, a facet 
> is cut into a stone, as choices build the ediface of the self.  
> Voldemort's apparent two-dimensional state can be a tip-off to what 
> happens to a diminished, or chipped, soul.
> 
> Ceridwen.

bboyminn:

Again were are into very abstract aspects. I've always been of the
belief that the soul is a higher aspect of the true Self that is
separate from the body or earthly form. Our body and its associated
personality and earthy concerns mean very little to the soul. To the
soul, the body is just a vehicle that carries the soul, much like an
automobile is a vehicle that carries the body. While your car may
reflect your personality, it doesn't define your essential being. 

Once the soul crosses over into the 'eternal peace', I think it loses
all attachment to the body. In otherwords, your talent, your
personality, your priorities, your concerns are manifestations of your
earthly Self, and that attachment to the earthly Self is lost when you
return to pure soul. 

That's one of the reason that I don't think Harry is a Horcrux. The
various aspects of Voldemort that we see manifested in Harry are
aspects that are an extension of the Earthly Self of Voldemort, and
are separated from his essential soul.

As an illustration, consider reincarnation. One soul continues through
many lives, but the attachment to each earthly Self is lost between
reincarnations. When the body and soul are truly separated, the
earthly self loses all meaning and value, and the greater soulfull
Self takes over. I will say that the greater soulfull Self retains the
spiritual lessons learned during the journey taken within the earthly
Self.

When essentail soulfull selves manifest themselves on earth or for
other humans, they simply temporarily take on the form that humans
will recongise and relate to. 

A ghost is someone who is afraid to let go of their earthly Self and
return to the pure soulfull Self, hence they are trap halfway between
life and 'death'. They have lost their earthly body, but still cling
to their earthly essense; their attachment to the vehicle of this
lifetime.

Not sure if that's clear, but I think you get the general idea.

Steve/bboyminn