Thin air/Choices Was re:sex/VanishingCabinet/SoulsEtc/Badger/Ch.2/

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 140000

Saraquel:
Ahhh! determinism or free will, nature or nurture, we should be able 
to dispatch this one fairly quickly with a few well chosen 
thoughts :-)

>Houynhmhnm wrote:
>I think you are right about the quote from CoS. And the behavior of
>the characters seldom deviates from the pattern that has been
>established for them.

Jen wrote:
>If JKR's going with a *pure* Calvinist view, the actions of her
>characters mean nothing as she's already pre-ordained their core
>essence by age 11. <snip>
>But JKR's choosing to hinge a huge theme of her story on the idea 
>that blood content means nothing for who a person chooses to 
>become. <snip>
>Clearly Voldemort created his future by chosing to act on the 
>prophecy as he did. I guess the question is: Did Voldemort have a 
>choice WRT his choice or was he predestined to choose to act the 
>way he did.

>Ffred wrote:
>I suspect that had I been Harry, I'd have replied
>"Yes, Headmaster, I rather thought that that was inherent in the 
>definition of the word prophecy. Otherwise, how is it any different 
>from Stan and Ernie having a pint in the pub before the game on 
>Saturday and Ernie saying "The Cannons will walk it this afternoon"?

Saraquel:
Working on the balance of the theme's in the book, I think I'm going 
to have to definitely come down on the side of choice ultimately 
being the most significant thing in the Potterverse, over the power 
of nature or nurture or predeterminism. That there is an element of 
choice about whether a prohpecy is fulfilled, I think clinches the 
deal for me.

I think that DD exhorts the whole school to beware of what comes 
naturally and engage reason, in his, "choose what is right over what 
is easy." That characters "seldom deviate from the pattern that has 
been established" could well be part of the plotting of the book, 
IMO - I would like to add – up until now.  I think part of the 
banginess of book 7 will be characters facing situations where the 
right choice (one contrary to their pattern) will be their 
salvation.  The easy choice, which follows their pattern, will be 
their damnation. 

Although this obviously applies to the villains and suspected 
villains, I think that JKR is definitely setting Harry up for this 
to happen to him.  Choose vengeance and you will fail to vanquish 
Voldemort, choose love and you will triumph.  Lily *chose* love over 
everything.  It was her choice which deflected the AK.

As to whether Voldemort had a "choice WRT his choice", I think 
because, in the past, he chose to effectively, systematically, 
eliminate his range of choices by requiring of himself that there 
was only one way the world could be seen, his present is in a sense 
pre-determined by himself.  Something along the lines of:

1 Voldemort decides the world should be black and white (a choice).

2 Voldemort  consistently interprets everything in terms of black 
and white (the implementation of the choice).

3 For Voldemort the world *is* now black and white. (the result of 
the consistently applying 2)

4 Voldemort now has effectively no choice but to see the world as 
black and white. (he has effectively predetermined his present 
choices by his past choice)

Of course, the argument against that is that his original nature 
predetermined that he had no choice about how to see the world in 
the first place :-) But then why bother to have a concept of choice 
at all?

Saraquel
Who would like to thank Houyhnhnm for the Kiekegaard quote which she 
enjoyed immensely.  And also to say that your name always makes me 
think of a form of traditional Scottish scat singing, so brings a 
smile to my face. (I play traditional Scottish fiddle music.)