That darn Prophecy again.. Re: Thin air/Choices

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 140027

It seems to me that Saraquel, Ceridwen and I have set ourselves to the
insurmountable. In trying to extrapolate a canon definition of life
and death in Potterverse I feel that I have mostly only managed to
unroll the tape from a stack of so many cassettes that I sit in a room
completely filled with unravelled twisted lengths of film, not at all
sure what next to do with them.

So I have decided to close the door on that room for now and start
again in a fresh space. 

>From scratch, lets recompile the unanswered questions:

1. Is an Horcrux an intrinsic part of Voldemorts life and death? Or is
it a separate and distinct object once removed from the original body,
and therefore unrelated to the actual death of Voldemort. 

Many have answered simply "Yes" to the latter, and I cannot deny that
there is little, if any, canon rebuttal for that. It certainly appears
to be exactly as it happens in the canon. The Horcrux container is
destroyed, and along with it, the piece of soul. I appears to have
been done by the hands of Dumbledore and Harry. Dumbledore is left
with a "dead" hand, and Harry survives his encounter relatively
unscathed. It would be easy to just cut the cake neatly this way and
be satisfied with a few crumbs on the table. And I encourage anyone
who is able, to do just that, for otherwise the whole thing is quite a
headache. <g>

2. Do the Horcruxes figure in the prophecy?


> houyhnhnm quoted:
> >"If Voldemort had never heard of the prophecy, would it have been
> >fulfilled?  Would it have meant anything?  Of course not.  Do you
> >think every prophecy in the Hall of Prophecy has been fulfilled?"

> > FFred 
> > I suspect that had I been Harry, I'd have replied
> > "Yes, Headmaster, I rather thought that that was inherent in the  
> > definition of the word prophecy. <snip>


> Allie:
> I was also.  All that drama surrounding Harry's divination exam in 
> PoA and Trelawney going into a trance to deliver...  something that 
> might not even happen????  I took it as a given that all the 
> prophecies were things that would actually come to pass.

Valky:
I think, that this is a deliberate narrative nudge leading us to look
away from the prophecy. But despite Dumbledore advising Harry not to
put a whole lot of 'stock' in it's fulfillment I find it hard to
believe that he kept it from Harry, and in his penseive, those many
years without having taken it somewhat more seriously than that.  

Over all, I conclude that we have been guided away from interpreting
the prophecy by the hand of HBP narrative. But I am stubborn. Thanks
to all too many (misspent <g>)years of sleuthing the HP series I
refuse to go along with the narrative director. The Prophecy IMHO is
exactly where I think we should look. I think Ffred's coment is
exactly the point, it's inherent nature is that it will be fulfilled.

This is, for me, where the fun begins. And looking at the prophecy
upon the revelation of Voldemorts seven pieces of soul presents an
intriguing puzzle, the kind that would be worth waiting a decade for.
Alas I am helpless against the power of an ingenius riddle-me-this.
And so in I plunge. 

Either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while
the other survives, this intrigues me so lately. The HBP revelation
for me was that Voldie himself has strewn his will across the
countryside. Between his DADA curse and his Horcruxes, Voldie no
longer has a will of his own, or control over even his own choices
anymore. His Diary Horcrux virtually ressurrected an alternate
autonomous Dark Lord that never really had to obey or agree with the
first. They represent a divided will in Voldemort each fully able to
act upon its own countenance, and if it suited one to kill the other,
then frankly who could put it past Voldemort? 

The DADA curse itself is the most remarkable example. In the very
first book Voldemort all but killed himself with it. What is revealed
in HBP is that Quirrel's demise was Voldemorts own doing no less than
the demise of any teacher who held that cursed position in Hogwarts.
And something so uncanny also appears.. Could Harry live if Quirrel
survived? Could Voldemort live if Harry survived? The answer is
clearly no, isn't it. But it is not Harry's hand that brought this
demise upon Quirrel in the end.. Over and over we are told that
Voldemort's hand lay behind it all. Voldemort gave Harry the tools to
do this, Voldemort created the DADA curse. The Chamber of Secrets is
the same, Voldemort gave Harry the ability to speak Parseltongue,
Voldemort makes him refuse Slytherin and cling to his Gryffindor
nature... Voldemort, Voldemort, Voldemort.. 

Either of two, it seems to me, is becoming ridiculously obviously
*not* Voldemort and Harry, but Voldemort and Voldemort. 

Am I making sense now?

Valky