Voldemort good/bad.

[Rebecca Hoskins]

No: HPFGUIDX 140100

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" 
<delwynmarch at y...> wrote:
> Rebecca wrote:
> "But I do have to stress that an upbringing such as (Tom's) is not
> guaranteed to bring about the development of a psychopath."
> 
> Del replies:
> Agreed, absolutely.
> 
> From what I gathered, the creation of a psychopath apparently 
requires
> the combination of three elements:
> 
> 1. A wrong nature
> 
> 2. A wrong nurture
> 
> 3. A wrong opportunity
> 
> Tom had all three of them, according to canon:
> 
> 1. His inborn nature was not normal. We are told that he didn't cry
> much as a baby, and the feeling I get from the orphanage's 
director's
> explanations is that he always made his caretakers slightly uneasy.
> 
> 2. As we discussed previously, he most probably never had a true
> chance of bonding and experiencing love.
> 
> 3. He was powerfully magical, and he had nobody to keep a check on
> him, so he was able very early in life to exert his power on others.
> 
> Had any one of those three circumstances been different, things 
would
> probably have turned very differently.
> 
> Rebecca wrote:
> "Yet (David Pelzer) has somehow managed to become a normal and
> emotionally sound individual, fully capable of love and generosity. 
A
> lack of love at a young age can bring about some terrible problems,
> but it is not certain that this will happen, as David Pelzer can 
testify."
> 
> Del replies:
> I think that David Pelzer probably did have problems (though I am 
not
> implying psychopathic traits, don't get me wrong), but that he found
> it in himself to overcome them. I can't imagine that someone with 
his
> background wouldn't have any problems at all.
> 
> His books sound fascinating by the way.
> 
> Rebecca wrote:
> "I still maintain that Harry would not have become like Voldemort if
> he had been raised in Tom Riddle's stead. Neither would Tom Riddle
> have become a brave and generous boy like Harry if he'd been loved 
for
> 14 months and then raised by the Dursley's."
> 
> Del replies:
> I don't think there's any way we can know for sure. The second
> proposal I very much agree with, because I think that it would have
> taken much more than 14 months of love to correct the faults in 
Tom's
> inborn personality, and also that he would have had to be raised in 
a
> wizarding family all his youth, so his use of magic would be kept
> under control.
> 
> But as for Harry... He has a strong capacity to hate when he wants 
to,
> his father was quite a bully, his maternal aunt isn't a model of
> niceness either. So I don't know what kind of inborn personality he
> was born with. We also have reasons to believe that a significant 
part
> of the love he feels now comes from his mother, not from himself. 
And
> when under the strong negative influence of LV in OoP, he did give 
in
> once in a while to his anger and even to cruelty. He even goes as 
far
> as threatening to use magic on his Muggle cousin, which is
> disturbingly reminiscent of what Tom did as a child (probably not a
> coincidence, though). So between the many, various, and sometimes
> diametrically opposed influences Harry is living under, I find it
> pretty hard to determine what exactly Harry's own original 
personality
> looked like. But if I had to bet, I'd say he didn't have the right
> nature to become a psychopath. Things like the way he instinctively
> offered to share with Ron in the train in PS/SS make me feel like 
his
> innate nature is too much on the good side to be perverted to the
> point of psychopathy.
> 
> Rebecca wrote:
> "But I cannot think of any circumstances under which Tom Riddle 
could
> have been raised to produce a 'nice', 'brave', 'selfless' 
or 'caring'
> person. I don't believe that it was in his nature."
> 
> Del replies:
> Once again, we will never know. But I think it is too harsh a
> condemnation to say that some kids out there will never be any of
> those things, no matter what kind of help and upbringing they 
receive!
> Being nice, brave, selfless and caring are not just things that one
> can have as an innate makeup. They can all be learned. Most people 
do
> have to learn one or several of those qualities, in fact. Many
> unpleasant kids learn to be nice when they feel loved and 
appreciated.
> Many scaredy people learn to be brave when they find the right 
support
> to accompany them. Many ego-centric people learn to be selfless when
> somehow forced to engage in service projects. And many cold people
> learn to be caring, when thrown in many different situations. 
There's
> no way I would say that even a kid like Tom couldn't learn those
> things, and learn to like them too! Isn't it what "A Christmas 
Carol"
> is about after all? About the fact that even the most embittered,
> cold-hearted people can change? And my Christian values most
> definitely support the concept that *everyone* can change their
> nature, if they can find the right kind of help before it is too 
late.
Del


 You make some good points Del. 
I had felt it necessary to post on the subject when I'd heard 
comments on how Harry and Tom could easily have taken each other's 
places, ie if Tom had had that 15 months of love and Harry hadn't. 
And that it was only chance that Harry was 'nice' and that Voldemort 
was 'evil'.

I felt strongly that it was not quite so simple as this, and you seem 
to agree with me.

Your point on not giving up on Voldemort is a good one. I said that I 
could think of no circumtstances under which Voldemort could have 
become a nice, generous etc person. I maintain it is unlikely, but 
you are right that highly unlikely things do happen, and that it not 
good to give up on people.

And also that Harry, like Darth Vader, probably has it in him to take 
that wrong path (to chose the dark path for 'good' reasons, if you 
like). It is only the choices that he makes that keep him on the side 
of good. And there are moments when he stumbles into the dark: his 
deep hatred of Snape and Voldemort, his attmepted crucio on Bellatrix 
and sectumsempra on Snape. There are times in fact when he almost 
seems to be travelling on a knife edge.

Of course, we can all read this from the comfort of our armchairs 
knowing that this is a children's story and that Harry will 
remain 'good'.

But if this were real life I can see how Harry has taken a path that 
could lead him to living a 'dark' life.

Rebecca