The AK itself, / Keep Harry Horcrux Free Challenge

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 140269

Saraquel replying to Elyse, Raie, Ceridwen and Sandy

Elyse wrote:
> 
 although my argumentative powers are feeble.

Saraquel:  Whatever gave you that idea!

Argument from Legilimency
Nice one, Elyse, I think I'll just sit back and nurse my flesh 
wound, and watch the action over this one.

Wizards and Muggles
Elyse wrote:
>I believe the ability to speak Parseltongue must reside in genes
>or blood. If Slytherin's heirs could all speak Parseltongue, are you
>suggesting they had Salazar Slytherin's soul in them?

>Sandy wrote:
>Not only did TMR have the gift of parseltongue after he'd created
>himself a body, but he had it *when he was possessing Ginny*, before
>he had a body... so the ability *had* to be part of the soul piece 
in
>the horcrux diary. Didn't it?

Saraquel:
Absolutely loved that point, brought a huge grin to my face.  
Although the more we toss this subject around, the more blurred it 
becomes as to what resides where.  I did have it all nicely sorted 
in my mind, but participating in this thread has managed to 
levicorpus me completely and my brain now resembles scrambled egg.

Elyse wrote:
>In PoA Lupin says if your soul is sucked out you become "an
>empty shell" devoid of thought, feeling, you simply exist. So this
>indicates not only that the mind and personality is a function of
>the but also that your magical power - the ability to harness magic 
>out of ether or whatever - still resides in you. Only now that you 
>have lost your mind you cannot use it.

Saraquel:
I can't quite follow you here, are you saying that because Lupin did 
not actually specify that you lost your magical powers as well, that 
they therefore must still be in you?  If so, I'm not totally 
convinced about that as evidence.

Elyse wrote:
>Hoping I gave Saraquel some support.

Saraquel:
Welcome to the bit of flotsam that is "Harry is not a Horcrux" – 
hope you've got some waterwings :-)


Welcome to the list Raie.  Wow, great first post, I loved it.  (I 
seem to remember that mine was more like mimblewimble.) It made me 
dive for GoF and reread that scene.  All that wonderful evidence 
just sitting there under my nose, and I can't believe I never 
thought to reference it. Thanks Raie! From the tone of your post and 
the way you argue, you might be interested in going back a bit to 
some posts that happened earlier, I'll put some links at the bottom 
of this post. 

OK, so what happened in that lesson, which I think is relevant to 
this thread is:
UK Ed GoF Ch 14 p191
`There was a flash of blinding green light and a rushing sound, as 
though a vast invisible something was soaring through the air – 
instantaneously the spider rolled over onto its back, unmarked, but 
unmistakably dead. <snip> Moody was saying `Avada Kedavra's a curse 
that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it , - you could all get 
your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I 
doubt I'd get so much as a nose-bleed.'

So the real question is, what is the vast invisible something?  Does 
that describe a soul or life force or powers or what?

Raie wrote:
>My (half baked) interpretation is that the AK is using your own life
>force to overcome and disrupt that of another. It makes sense with
>what was said about the status of the victims and what Moody/Crouch
>said is required to make the curse work. There is no mark of any 
>kind or trace of what happened; only their surprised/scared 
>expression. It would fit with having your life force sucked/forced 
>out.

Saraquel:
I loved this thought – although I wouldn't worry about it being half-
baked, with the evidence available to us on this sort of topic, 
we're all pretty used to eating raw food on the list, half-baked is 
a bonus :-)

If JKR meant `vast' literally, then I think it being a soul fragment 
is less likely.  We are told that murder *splits* the soul, rather 
than murder sends a part of your soul hurtling through space. Also, 
Horcruxes have been quite small objects – although it might be a 
compressible vastness 
  The fact that Moody says it needs a 
powerful bit of magic behind it also implies that some powers might 
be in the mix.  

More like nuclear fission – the soul splits, and releases energy and 
radiation – life force and powers anyone? Sounds absolutely 
wonderful to me, Raie – no accidental horcrux needed IMO – big grin.

In hindsight, if news got back to DD about what Crouch!Moody was 
doing in his lessons, then he should have sussed him out straight 
away.

I'm not going to take you up on the GH scenario here, Raie, I think 
that deserves a thread of its own.

Ceridwen, I think that some of your points have already been 
answered by Elyse so I'll just pick up a couple of points.

Sarquel wrote:
Evidence from CoS

>Ceridwen wrote:
>I don't think it's a given that TR would have gone for Harry instead
>of Ginny.

Saraquel:
I think you may have misunderstood me here, Ceridwen.  I was 
thinking that if Harry was a horcrux, then the moment Voldemort's 
soul entered him at GH, it would have tried to suck the life force 
out of baby Harry, especially as Voldemort was made instantly 
bodiless.

Ceridwen wrote:
>(Going off on a tangent here, could the power source reside in the
>heart? If someone who is not magical does perform magic in book 7,
>could it be because they have found their heart/courage in a
>desperate situation, like mothers who heave cars off their kids?
>And, if being 'heartsick' over a lost or oblivious love can diminish
>one's magic, then that would be a heart effect, too)

Saraquel:
I'm also swimming in porridge over just what resides where, but I do 
think that the emotions reside in the blood, which was why Harry 
started to feel Voldemort's emotions *after* Voldemort used his 
blood in the rebirthing scene.  There is obviously a connection 
between emotion and powers (Tonks), but I have also speculated on 
hands being important here, that DD lost some of his powers when his 
wand hand died, and that he wasn't willing to give up the whole of 
his left hand, but only two or three fingers! Also, do witches 
channel magical power (your power source) or is it in them?  My 
thought is that they may channel it, rather in the manner of 
spiritual healers.

Hoping you've got enough bandages for your hands :-) I might have to 
come and join you, because, what always puzzles me is the scene in 
PS film, where someone (Voldemort or whoever else was at GH)is 
standing over Harry *after* Lily's death, and baby Harry has no 
scar!!!  Work that one out.

Saraquel

Raie, the promised links.  They are mostly to my own posts, as I 
only have a record of those, but rummage around and you will pick up 
the threads.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/139703
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/139763
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/139828
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/136797
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/137115
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/137386