Snape's canon opposite/ Proving loyalty / Who may survive the series.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 140291

> > Alla:
> >Oh, Jen I wonder about Snape al the time :-). So, here is what I 
am 
> > wondering at the moment. Are you sure that Tom is  Snape's canon 
> > opposite? Couldn't it be that those two just represent the 
> > different faces the Evil can assume?
> 
> Jen: The parallel is lost, though! I'm not very knowledgeable about 
> mechanics of literature, but it's interesting that the 'admirable' 
> Tom Riddle was trusted by everyone except Dumbledore, and the 
greasy-
> git Snape was trusted by no one else but. It doesn't fit that nice 
> parallel to have Snape be evil, too :). Maybe it was just 
> coincidence on JKR's part, yet trust is a very big issue in 
> Potterverse. 

Alla:

Oh, true, then the parallel is lost of course. But I was questioning  
the existence of such parallel in the first place, or more like 
comparison, I am not sure.

I think some parallels which we assumed existed had been squashed by 
JKR. For example parallel between Harry and Neville I thought was 
squashed quite neatly by JKR's answer to the FAQ poll and what more 
importantly by HBP where Neville basically became a non-existent 
entity.

Of course nothing stops him from playing important role in book 7, I 
suppose.

It is basically the same to me as much brought up look of revulsion 
and hatred on Snape face when he kills Albus and Harry hating himself 
when he feeds Albus that potion.

Is it a parallel, a comparison, or a false parallel, where one does 
what is right and another what is easy, while having exactly the same 
feelings?

You know what I am inclined  to believe of course, but both of the 
possibilities could come true of course.



> 
> > Alla:
> > LOL! You see I can call such person not just "very mean",
> > but "evil", maybe not the same caliber, but definitely evil, so
> > with me, it is just JKR showed us one more act of such evil 
person.
> 
> Jen: You'll laugh at me Alla, but I didn't understand you felt that 
> way. Snape inspires so many different emotions and thoughts, and my 
> bar for evil is different. But I'd rather debate it now & have the 
> chance to disagree than read the series 5 years from now with the 
> outcome a known quantity--we're the lucky ones.

Alla:

Hmmm, of course I won't laugh at you, but I AM annoyed with myself. I 
guess my writing skills are even more abismal than I thought. :-) 
Just out of curiosity, how did you think I felt about Snape's 
attitude towards Harry and Neville? ( If you could reply off list, I 
would appreciate it, since I suppose the answer could get OT easily)
I thought that I was being a parrot on this subject too often. ;)
But I am going to try and clarify again . No, prior to HBP I did not 
think of Snape as evil of the same caliber as Voldemort of course. I 
think HBP broadened my horizons significantly though.

You know, I think that maybe I am arguing semantics since I am 
thinking of the concept of Evil in Russian and I tend to think of 
mean person as a bit more of " annoying", something which could be 
overcome quite easily.

So, I guess the best way to describe what I felt about Snape as a 
teacher would be using "everyday evil" expression ( thank you, Nora).
But I also felt that he was loyal to  the Light, so I thought of him 
as evil person with redemptive qualities, with at least some ability 
to do the right thing.

But you are so right that we are the lucky ones to debate it now,wile 
the series are still work in progress.

It is most definitely a pleasure arguing with you. :-)



> Jen: 
<snip>
That moment 
> when Snape's face contorted in rage and pain was very poignant to 
me 
> because he had just killed the only person who fully trusted him 
and 
> forgave his past, and he'd thrown it away. Even if he threw it away 
> by following orders, it was still his Unbreakable Vow that led to 
> that moment. I saw remorse there, too. (Not for James, though <g>). 

Alla:

I hope you are right , Jen, I REALLY hope you are right. I want to 
see a lot of remorse and a lot of pain from Snape if he is to survive 
the series. :-)

Now, on the subject of surviving the series I am sure this was 
brought up by someone, but I don't remember whom - apologies.

I used to think that JKR wishes Happy birthdays to good guys only, 
now of course I am not so sure about it. :-)

But someone on Fiction Alley brought up  the idea that the Happy 
Birthdays are wished to people who survived the series, since 
Dumbledore  and Sirius Black are no on the list.

Of course I would be very tempted to agree with this speculation - 
since all the characters I love are on the list. The only argument 
against it would be that all Weasleys are wished Happy Birthday and 
it is very unlikely that she won't kill at least one of them from 
such large family. But who knows, right? Maybe she loves Weasleys so 
much that she will let them all live.

And of course IMO it is also possible that Harry will survive ( not 
necessarily, but possible).

So, going back to the subject of Snape - he is on the  calendar, 
right?

So if this speculation is to be believed, then Snape will survive, I 
guess.

> houyhnhnm:
<snip>
In other 
> words, those who are most upset by the Snapes of this world are 
those 
> who have the most Snape-like qualities themselves.

Alla:

Very interesting.


Magpie:
<SNIP of the whole post basically>

> Getting into the personal area, it may be hard not to just 
substitute 
> whatever teachers remind us of these guys.  

Alla:

It is likely and reasonable, but not necessarily at all, IMO, if I 
were to judge based upon myself. I mentioned it couple of times - I 
NEVER, ever had a teacher like Snape, not even in law school, as 
incredible as it may sounds :-) ( and I don't mean strict, even very 
strict teacher, I had plenty of those). I mean a teacher who took a 
personal revenge on me for some reason.

And still I cannot stand what he does in classroom. 



JMO of course,

Alla.