Sadistic!Snape? (was:Snape's canon opposite/ Proving loyalty...)

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 140327

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c...> 
>> Betsy Hp:
> > Actually, I'd catagorize the toad incident as trying to vividly 
> > drive home the lesson that the potions the students are making 
are 
> > *supposed* to be consumed.  Frankly, I think Snape was trying to 
> > reach Neville here.  It didn't work, unfortunately.  And taking 
> > five points for Hermione's cheating strikes me as something much 
> > less than abusive and certainly not sadistic.

Lupinlore:
> If threatening to kill a student's beloved pet isn't sadistic, 
what 
> on Earth would be?

Marianne:

And, whether or not one wants to characterize this brief exercise in 
terrorizing Neville about the possible demise of his pet as 
sadistic, what has always bothered me is that Snape never changes 
his approach to Neville. Obivously he knows what effect he has on 
Neville, right? I mean, Snape is a superb Occlumens so he must be 
able to "read" Neville.  And, his long career as a double agent must 
have honed his skills in reading people through their slightest 
facial ticks and reactions to a razor's edge. So, I can't for a 
moment believe he had no idea of his impact on Neville.  

Maybe what it comes down to is that Snape has no idea that not all 
people will react the same way to the same style of teaching.  Snape 
realized that Neville would bumble his way through Potions, and, 
since that was all he could do, that was all Snape expected.  It 
never seemed to occur to him that perhaps trying a different tact 
with this student might have gotten better results.


> Lealess:
> > > Honestly, Snape is not cut out to be a teacher.
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> > Exactly!  While Harry still bears the scars of Umbridge's 
> > treatment.  No, JKR knows how to write a sadist, and she didn't 
do 
> > so with Snape, IMO.
> 

Lupinlore:
> And I totally disagree.  Snape is a textbook example of petty 
sadism 
> which JKR has depicted perfectly.  The sad fact that he is allowed 
to teach is one of the deepest sins (and I use that word quite 
> deliberately) of the Wizarding World, and helps account for the 
fact 
> that so many fans have such deep contempt for that world, and 
would 
> likely be happy to see Voldemort destroy it were it not for such 
rare examples as the Weasleys.

Marianne:

Agreed.  And, yes, Harry still bears visible scars from Umbridge's 
treatment, but that seems to me to treat a bit lightly the scars on 
people that are not seen.  

What we are falling into here seems similar to me to the discussion 
not long ago as to whether the Dursleys treatment of Harry 
constituted child abuse.  Happily, we have not gotten to the snarky 
personal level, but, I suspect we're not going to agree whether or 
not Snape is abusive, either.

Marianne