Why DD trusts Snape, Pettigrew and GH

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 140425

>I wrote:
>But, what does Snape know that is
>almost guaranteed to persuade DD that he has changed sides – he
>knows that Pettigrew is a spy for Voldemort. I speculate that this
>is the reason why DD really trusts Snape, because he shopped
>Pettigrew.

Saraquel now: 
(Julie posted her message after I started this post and the answer 
to it is further down)
Well, as no-one has taken up my suggestion about DD, Snape and 
Pettigrew overnight I will now have to do all the hard work myself. 
(Sticks out bottom lip and huffily attacks the keyboard :-)  )

IMO, the biggest problem for the theory is why DD did not suspect 
Pettigrew of shopping the Potters.  DD thought that Sirius was the 
Secret Keeper, therefore, his first reaction must have been to 
suspect that Sirius told Voldemort.  However, if Snape knew that 
Pettigrew was a spy, it is unlikely that he would not `know' that 
Sirius was one. (*We* know Sirius was loyal, but I'm talking about 
what DD and Snape would have thought at the time.)  

So what conclusion did DD and Snape come to at the time?  Pettigrew 
is thought to be dead and Sirius is whisked off to Azkaban without 
trial. DD did not go and visit Sirius to get the real story, which 
implies, in terms of this theory,  that he just believed either, 
that there were two spies or that Snape was wrong about who the spy 
was.  For the theory to work, it has to be the former.  If DD 
thought Snape had shopped him the wrong guy, then bye-bye Snape as a 
double-agent for Voldemort. So that would mean that Snape had to 
have given DD some pretty firm evidence about Pettigrew, and that DD 
believed him completely.

For Dumbledore to trust Snape over Sirius would be a big step.  We 
know however, that DD wanted to be the Potter's secret keeper 
himself.  Was this because he had his doubts about Sirius already?  
Which leads me to, what was happening with the Marauders – there 
certainly seems to have been something rotten in the State of 
Denmark for all of them to be suspecting each other of being a spy.  
But I digress, I don't think I can fathom the depths of that one, 
but suspect it might have arisen during the defied-him-thrice 
episodes.  (Why does that always make me think of cocks crowing – so 
close, but so opposite :-) )

If DD did have doubts about Sirius, even though they can't have been 
backed up by evidence from Snape, then perhaps he just did assume 
that Sirius had shopped the Potter's.  Although Snape can't have 
provided evidence to DD, he would probably have loved backing up 
this assumption with every "it's certainly possible" that he could 
conceivably muster.  As long as DD thought Sirius was the secret 
keeper, then he could not suspect Pettigrew because of the Fidelius 
charm not allowing (in DD's mind)Pettigrew to spill the beans to 
Voldemort.  It makes one think (my theory being right or not has no 
bearing on this point)that Sirius actually lied to DD, as Valky has 
suggested, such that DD was *totally convinced* that Sirius was the 
Secret Keeper.

Ahh, Julie has just replied to my original post, and has brought up 
the exact point that I'm discussing here.  So take the above as a 
possible reply – although I'm far from being certain about this 
theory, I would like to give it a good chance as I think it warrants 
detailed thinking.

I think the following comments need to be addressed specifically:

>Julie wrote:
>I also think Snape would have shown some reaction (if
>only one of his signature twitches) to the revelation that Peter was
>the Secret Keeper--unless he's an amazing actor who can pretend he
>never knew anything about Peter's real character while 
>simultaneously
>expressing an impassioned glee that Sirius was about to pay for his
>crimes. (I don't think he's that good an actor when expressing
>emotions are involved, only when the acting involves *hiding* his
>feelings.) 

Saraquel:
Snape actually knows nothing new about the story of Sirius, 
Pettigrew and the Potters at the end of PoA.  He arrived in the 
shrieking shack to hear about the prank. He does not hear at that 
point, that Pettigrew was the secret keeper.  Sirius agrees to go up 
to the castle if Snape takes the rat, he urges Snape to look at the 
rat (UK ed p264), but Snape doesn't listen. Snape was then hexed by 
the trio before the real explanation. He doesn't come to until after 
Pettigrew has escaped again. DD spoke to Sirius alone and then went 
to Harry and Hermione, I don't think he spoke to Snape.  Therefore, 
when Snape goes ballistic at the end of PoA, it is because he does 
not yet know that Pettigrew is guilty and believes that Sirius has 
got away with it.

>Julie wrote:
>It hardly bears thinking
>how angry Harry would be if he knew how much a hand Dumbledore
>had in his parents' death and his godfather's twelve years of 
>misery.
>Forgiving Snape would be child's play next to forgiving Dumbledore.
>
>Which, I admit, is part of my reason for not buying this theory. I
>do believe Dumbledore makes mistakes, some of them big, but I
>don't think he would sacrifice innocent people just to assure
>the success of any plan, even one to save the WW.

Saraquel:
Indeed, I agree, forgiving DD would be the challenge, which, 
contrary to you, is why I think that theory might have a possibility 
of being right. To me JKR is continuing to ratchet up the tension, 
making the obstacles which Harry has to surmount in making the right 
choice over the easy choice, increasingly hard.  This one would 
actually be the hardest of all, the greatest test.

I want to take up the point about DD sacrificing innocent people.  
When DD continued to exploit Pettigrew, he really did not know that 
Lily and James were likely to be in danger from Pettigrew.  DD 
really wanted to be their secret keeper, but was unable to persuade 
them, but probably backed down when Sirius was suggested by them. He 
did not sacrifice them for a plan, more, that in wartime everything 
is a risk, and he did not expect this risk to have such an horrific 
outcome.  

After PoA, during the whole of GoF, DD steers clear of Harry.  He 
tells him that the problem was legilimency, which is a factor.  But 
that he cannot look Harry in the eye is not surprising – he would be 
feeling unbearable guilt. Does this shed light on the other memories 
that Snape put in the pensieve, his memories of telling DD about 
Pettigrew?

Does it also offer an explanation for the Tower Scene.  DD was 
slowly telling Harry the whole truth.  He knew that he would have to 
tell Harry about this awful secret in the end, and he knew that once 
he did so, he would no longer be able to act as his mentor.  It was 
important to keep Harry ignorant of what happened until he had 
prepared him as fully as he possibly could. Also, he would feel even 
more pressure that Harry must stay alive – to have Harry die because 
of another of his mistakes, would be unbearable. So when Snape 
appears on the battlements, what is in DD's mind. Snape, keep Harry 
alive at all costs.  You know that in the end Harry won't trust me 
when I tell him the truth.  Kill me and get the DEs out of here, 
before they discover him under the invisibility cloak.

I've always thought that the argument in the forest between DD and 
Snape was about Pettigrew – that DD's reference to `your house', 
meant Spinners End not Slytherin.  Is there something that DD 
suspects Petigrew knows?  Having Pettigrew in his house must be 
doubly awful for Snape.  Can't make any more sense out this at the 
moment though.

OK, enough rambling, and Saraquel realises that this theory gives us 
an indisputable DDM!Snape - even though he is evil and nasty!

Saraquel