Conflict, imposition, and morality (Christian content)

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 140489

When I started writing this answer, I never EVER 
imagined it would turn out so long, so religious, 
and so much in defense of Snape...

vmonte wrote:
"Del, I'm very confused by your post."

Del replies:
OK, *that*, I can understand without any problem :-)

vmonte wrote:
"I also believe in God, like you, and because I 
adopt his teachings/code I can most certainly see 
that Snape's moral ethic/code is wrong."

Del replies:
I don't see it as wrong, I see it as "not the
best there's". And I see multiple reasons, many 
of them valid, why Snape hasn't chosen a "better" 
moral code yet. 

Let me give you a parallel: there are thousands 
of ways to spend your extra money, if you have 
any. Spending it on drugs or prostitutes is your 
right (in those countries where those activities 
aren't illegal). Spending it on legal drugs such 
as tobacco or alcohol is also your right. 
Spending it on self-centered activities such as 
going to the movies or buying a new suit is also 
your right. You have the right to spend all your 
extra money in things that won't benefit your 
neighbour in any form. Just because some people 
think, and Jesus taught, that a consequent part 
of our money (and time, and whatever) should go 
to charitable service doesn't mean anyone *has* 
to spend their money that way, especially if they 
don't believe in Christ. I have no right to judge 
someone who spends all their money on partying 
and never gives a Knut to the beggar in the street, 
even if I personally make it a point to give to 
the beggar regularly. 

Living a charitable life at the service of my 
neighbour might be my idea of the best possible 
life, and that idea might be supported by the One 
Authority in the Universe, God Himself, but that 
doesn't mean that I have a right to tell other 
people that the way they spend their life is 
"wrong". It's just not the best way, according to 
God, but that's it.

vmonte wrote:
"It does not matter whether he has a right to 
adopt a different code, what matters is if he is 
adopting the moral code that would place him on 
the right side. "

Del replies:
On the right side of what?? According to God, we 
are ALL on the wrong side, remember? We are ALL 
sinners, and we ALL need His grace. The fact that 
Snape might need it a little bit more than we do 
is irrelevant.

You see, I have a HUGE problem with defining what 
is right and what is wrong in the Potterverse. In 
the Potterverse, it seems like what DD thinks 
defines what is right and what is wrong. Being on 
the side of DD is right, having the same morality 
as DD is right, but doing or thinking differently 
than DD is wrong. My problem is that I think that 
DD's actions and morality are far from perfect to 
begin with. So there's no way I'm going to use DD 
as the line in the sand to define who is right 
and who is wrong.

I studied Physics at University, see, and so I 
necessarily did a bit of Maths. And one thing I 
learned is that, if your premise is faulty, you 
can elaborate as much as you want on it, you are 
*never* going to get a satisfying, bullet-proof 
result. The mathematical equivalent of building a 
house on the sand, if you want. And I personally 
see using DD as a foundation as doing exactly that: 
building on a faulty foundation. No house built 
on that foundation is going to be safe.

So I have to fall back on my usual foundation: God.
 And what did Christ teach? He taught that because 
He loved us first, we should love one another. 
Because He forgave us first, we should forgive one 
another. Because He served us first, we should 
serve one another. Now, happily, there is a vast 
number of people out there who have come to the 
conclusion that being loving and charitable is 
the best thing to do, even without having known of 
Christ's love first. But there are also many 
people out there who must *first* taste of Christ's 
love and forgiveness *before* they can let go of 
their old pains and sins, and start a new life. 
Christ knew that, and He accepted it, He never 
condemned those who couldn't know, only those who 
should have known. And I believe that Snape is one 
of those people who need to know Love and 
Forgiveness before they change, because of his 
young years. (More on that below)

You could argue that DD forgave Snape, and gave 
him a second chance. Yes, but DD is not Christ. 
DD doesn't have the Holy Ghost to make Snape feel 
his love. And DD is no God, he doesn't get involved 
in people's lives directly. That's even one of his 
biggest flaws, IMO. Take the Occlumency fiasco, 
for example. We know he didn't talk to Harry, he 
didn't even send him a letter. But it also seems 
like he didn't talk to Snape either. He gave Snape 
a task that the man was poorly equipped to carry 
out, and then he left him alone, *even when a HUGE 
obstacle - Harry invading his Pensieve - cropped 
up*. That's definitely not God's way. DD is no God, 
he doesn't have the power,  the ability nor the 
desire to get involved into each of his favourite 
charges' life. And so he cannot be regarded as an 
authority in morality, IMO.

vmonte wrote: 
"You do agree that it takes a certain sort of 
person to become a DE, right? It takes someone 
who is filled with hatred, enjoys inflicting pain 
on those that are weak or helpless, someone who 
can easily deny/suppress their emotions, a good 
liar, someone who is cruel, can  murder others, 
etc. "

Del replies:
No, I don't necessarily agree with that. I just 
have to look around me to see that *many* young 
adults get involved in extremist groups, not for 
their ideology at first, but for the feeling of 
*acceptance* (that's even one of the major tools 
of recruiting by the terrorist groups). Being made 
to feel like you belong, like you're important for 
the group, like someone cares for you, like you 
are accepted the way you are, those are *huge* 
snares for young people, especially the more 
solitary ones, like Snape, and also like Percy.

We know that Snape was hanging out with a gang of 
older Slytherins when he was at school. We know 
that when he was attacked by James and Sirius in 
the Worst Memory, no friend came to his rescue. 
So I think it's quite canon that Snape was quite 
lonely at Hogwarts after the Gang left, he had no 
friend of his age, no friend with whom associate 
once he left the school. But the Gang was still 
there, eager to take him back, I would bet, and 
eager to introduce him to LV, who was extremely 
good at charming and collecting the people he 
wanted, as we are told in HBP. Not to mention 
that all those friends were telling Snape that it 
is OK to be angry, that it is OK to be bitter at 
the way things are going in the WW, that it is OK 
to lash out, and so on. And most of all, LV 
probably taught Snape the very same thing he 
taught Quirrell: that there's *no good and evil*, 
only power and those too weak to use it. Can you 
imagine the degree of acceptance Snape must have 
felt? After having been persecuted for 7 years 
simply for liking the Dark Arts, he had found a 
home where people were telling him that he was 
absolutely normal! For a 19-year-old or about, 
that was like heaven.

We saw Percy do exactly the same thing. After 
being persecuted by his brothers for being 
ambitious and for following the rules, he found a 
home where people were praising him for being 
like that. It's no wonder to me why he chose the 
Ministry over his family.

Now I'm not saying that it is a sure thing that 
Snape didn't fully know what he was getting into. 
It is perfectly possible that he did know, and 
that he deliberately chose to enter a terrorist 
organisation with the intent of hurting people. 
But I don't think we have any canon saying that 
this is definitely the way it happened.

On the other hand, we know that Sirius believed 
that his brother had entered the DEs without 
knowing exactly what they were about, or at least 
without the intent of doing the same kind of 
things they were doing, and that he tried to back 
out when he was asked to get his hands dirtier 
than he felt comfortable with. Sirius might have 
been wrong about Regulus in particular, but it 
seems logical to me that this happened to some 
other people.

vmonte wrote:
"Of course it's Snape's right to live immorally, 
but it should not be  dismissed as just a 
personality quirk.   "

Del replies:
I definitely wouldn't classify it as a personality 
quirk. It's much more than that. It has to do 
with how someone sees life and their role in it. 
We know that Snape was not a well-integrated kid, 
quite the opposite. He was a loner, and he 
apparently wasn't trying to change that So 
obviously he had quite an extreme and negative 
view of companionship and social relationships. 
He apparently didn't get emotionally attached very 
easily, he held grudges, he had strong negative 
emotions (remember, those are not necessarily 
choices in teenagers, not 100% anyway). So I am 
not very surprised that his moral code as an adult 
would not include being nice with other people, 
simply because it was never there and because I 
don't think he ever lived an experience that 
would have changed his heart.

Sure Snape can see that other people live 
differently and seem happier than he is. So he 
could indeed decide to give it a try. But that 
would require him to let go of so many things 
that he's probably too scared to do that. I've 
seen that countless times in Christians, whether 
newly-converted or not (I went through it too, 
even though I was raised Christian): they don't 
want to let go of their past hurts, of their 
grudges, of their bad feelings, because they are 
afraid to *lose themselves*. They feel that those 
things are part of themselves, that they partly 
define who they are, and that if they let go, 
their very personality will desintegrate somehow. 
They also have a problem with equating forgiveness 
with being cheated on. They feel that if they 
forgive someone before that other person has shown 
remorse, then they will somehow "lose" and that 
other person will "win". I think there's something 
*very much* like that going on with Snape, in his 
hatred towards James. In RL, the best way to help 
those people let go of their hurt and grudge is to 
make them see and feel how much Christ loves them. 
Once they realise how much Christ has done for 
them, how He gave ("lost") everything, even His 
life, so they could "win", how much He loves them 
even in their sinful state, they find it much 
easier to forgive another imperfect human being. 
But Snape hasn't found such a love, so it is very 
possible that for now he simply cannot change his 
morality, it's just too much for him.

But with the Love Magic going around in the 
Potterverse, there's hope, real hope...

JMO, of course, 

Del