Harry, Snape and James (was:Re: Sadistic!Snape?...)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 140495

> Betsy Hp:
<snip>
 So Snape catches Harry acting in an incredibly stupid fashion, 
> following a path taken by his father before him.  Harry is saying 
> nothing.  Actually, Harry is thinking (correctly I think) 
> that, "Snape was trying to provoke him into telling the truth." 
> (ibid p. 284)  But nothing is working, so Snape brings up James in 
> the most insulting manner possible.  Why?
> 
> Now that we know a bit about legilmency and occulmency the answer 
> seems somewhat obvious, IMO.  Snape is trying to jolt Harry into 
> thinking about his father, possibly in connection with Lupin.  
Just 
> as he prompted Harry to think about his potions textbook in HBP, 
> Snape is trying to prompt Harry into thinking about instructions 
> given to him by Lupin.  Of course, Lupin had nothing to do with 
> Harry sneaking into Hogsmeade so Snape doesn't find what he's 
> looking for.  (Though he does zero in on the Map quite quickly, so 
> his detective work isn't *completely* in vain.)
> 
> It wasn't nice for Snape to talk about James in such a manner to 
> Harry.  And it certainly wasn't a good way to turn Harry's 
> affections away from James.  But it was a good way for a 
legilmentor 
> to draw specific thoughts to the surface.  And, if Snape's 
> suspicions had been true, it was a good way to protect Harry from 
an 
> evil influence.




Alla:

OK, I am incredibly confused now. Could we get something out of the 
way first? :-)

You are not saying anymore that by bringing James Snape was trying 
to stop Harry from emulating his father, correct?


If you are still saying it, we could at very least agree that this 
was not working over and over and over again, right?


So, if we ARE got it out of the way, could you clarify your argument 
for me, please?

You are saying that after trip in Hogsmead:

1. Snape wants Harry to think about James by insulting him ( OK, I 
understand it so far, but don't see how that would keep Harry safe).


2. Snape is hoping by legilimising Harry to find a prove of Lupin's 
guilt (?) while Harry is thinking about James.

Is that what you are saying? Why would Harry think of Lupin's guilt 
while he is feeling insulted for his dad?


I want to say that you are giving Snape way too much credit here, 
but I am not even clear what this credit is for. And I am not 
kidding.


Is the gist of your argument that by insulting James Snape was 
hoping to catch Lupin and thus protect Harry?


If I am right, wouldn't it be much MORE logical for Snape to insult 
Lupin in front of Harry and hoping that Harry would think about  the 
instructions which Lupin supposedly gave to him? I don't get it at 
all.




> Betsy Hp:
> You're right, of course.  It was very bad form for Snape to speak 
of 
> James at all, especially in such a manner.  However, I think the 
> *motive* for Snape's behavior was good.  I think Snape was 
genuinely 
> trying to keep Harry safe.  And keeping his son safe actually 
> *honors* James, and shows a genuine remorse, I think.
> 


Alla:

OK, let's forget PoA for a minute. What about HBP? What "good' 
reason Snape has for insulting James here in front of Harry?

I think it was Nora who said that it seems that Snape spent more 
time in HBP obsessing about James ( I am talking in relative terms 
of Snape screentime of course) than Harry was.

So far I remain convinced that  the main reason Snape keeps bringing 
up James is to cause Harry pain and that again makes me doubt Snape 
remorse, but we shall see of course.

I especially wonder what purpose could that sentence have except to 
get back at Harry, or to get back at James through his son.

"And you'd turn  my inventions on me, like your filthy father, would 
you? I don't think so... no!" - p.604, HBP

I am guessing you would find some logical reason for this sentence, 
I cannot find any, except intent to cause more pain to the boy whose 
mentor he killed in front of his eyes ( for whatever reason, if I 
may add). If Snape did not want to hurt Harry more, I would think he 
would dissappear without saying anything. After all, it does not 
seem that he had much problem deflecting Harry's curses. Maybe he 
wanted to continue  the fun? Not killing Harry of course, but 
hurting him emotionally and physically. 

He was running away of course, but I am thinking that he could do it 
faster?


JMO, of course

Alla.