The Powerful Slytherin (Re: Snape/Harry coincidence?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 140647

> >>Jen:
> I could be reading too much into HBP, but while the core of 
> the story was Riddle's history and the Horcruxes, woven into the 
> background was the subtle story of Harry's struggle with his 
> Slytherin tendencies and lessons learned from very unlikely       
> sources.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I don't think you're reading too deeply.  (Or if you are, then I am 
too. <g>)  Because I agree that HBP had a lot to do with Harry 
realizing his inner Slytherin.  I loved that Slytherin house was 
finally given a very human face.

> >>Jen: 
> <snip>
> [Harry] was completely right Draco was up to no good, but he      
> didn't realize part of his obsession was watching Draco move on   
> without him. Draco gave up his boyhood pursuits--Quidditch,       
> harassing Harry, being Snape's favorite--to take on a man's job.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
It's interesting how quickly the change occurred for Draco, too.  He 
was so childish, compared to Harry, for the last few books, and 
suddenly he leaped ahead.  And I think the same thing happened to 
Harry this year.  The death of Sirius started the change (Harry 
realized he didn't have the time to wallow in adolescent angst), and 
I think the death of Dumbledore completed it.  Harry is even willing 
to put his vendetta against Snape on hold so he can accomplish his 
task of finishing Voldemort.  That's a remarkable change, IMO.  
(It's a mark of maturity Sirius was never able to achieve, 
unfortunately.)

> >>Jen:
> Seeing Draco crying in the bathroom & casting the Sectumsempra     
> jolted Harry out of his routine, but even then, Snape saved him    
> from his consequences. Everything changed for Harry the night of  
> the cave and tower, though. Ultimately, both boys gave up the need 
> for father figures altogether and grew into the next generation of 
> men taking sides in another painful war.
> Then there's this tiny problem, or maybe a huge obstacle, called 
> Snape. 
> <snip>
> What does Harry need to learn from Snape? For it seems inevitable 
> to me this will be the final area of growth for Harry in defeating 
> Voldemort.

Betsy Hp:
Potioncat touched on Snape's role as one of Harry's father figures 
in post #140604.  He's the one figure left that Harry has yet to 
fully understand, IMO.  So I think gaining an understanding of the 
*real* Snape will be very important for Harry's final steps into 
manhood.  I'm not sure how JKR will tie that into the horcrux hunt, 
but I'm sure she will.  I think this goes back to the parallels 
between Snape and Harry.  Until Harry understands Snape I don't 
think he'll fully understand himself. (If that makes any kind of 
sense.) 

> >>houyhnhnm:
> I'm not sure in how it points the way to a resolution of the      
> conflict between Harry and Snape; it doesn't seem to lead to      
> anything in book 6, but the exhange between the two of them in    
> DADA struck me as very significant.
---------------------------------------
> "Yes," said Harry stiffly.
> "Yes, *sir*."
> "There's no need to call me 'sir', Professor."
> The words had escaped him before he knew what he was saying.       
> Several people gasped, including Hermione....
> "Detention, Saturday night, my office," said Snape. "I do not take
> cheek from anyone, Potter ... not even *'the Chosen One'*."
---------------------------------------
> I was one of the ones who gasped. It's smart aleck and funny--the
> funniest line in book (next to "Oh, well, that's better than a    
> whack on the nose with a rusty poker.")-- but it's also the first 
> time I can think of that Harry responds to Snape in an adult way.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Hmmm.  I actually saw this as a remnant of Harry's childishness.  
Snape is trying to teach him to do non-verbal spells, the difference 
between an adult wizard and a child, and Harry, rather than trying 
to learn, acts like an adolescent.

It *does* show, IMO, that Harry has no fear of Snape.  But Harry has 
had very little fear of Snape from the first book.  (Harry goes 
after Snape for his Quidditch book in PS/SS because he's bored, 
IIRC.  Yet, he and Ron are amazed at Hermione's braveness in talking 
to McGonagall.)  I've no idea what that lack of fear means.  It's 
interesting though, IMO. 

It *also* shows how unwilling Harry is to listen to Snape.  He stops 
calling him 'sir' in PS/SS.  He speaks of Snape "forcing" his class 
to learn potions (as if learning potions in potions class is totally 
unheard of).  He completely dismisses anything Snape does for the 
Order or Dumbledore or even Harry himself.  Snape is obviously a spy 
for Dumbledore, Harry knows it, but Harry could care less.  Snape 
directly saves Dumbledore's life, Katie Bell's life, Draco's life 
(saving Harry from becoming a murderer), and Harry's life, yet Harry 
gives him no credit. 

And, from the first book onward, two adults Harry unquestionably 
trusts (and even loves, I think) tell Harry that Snape is one of the 
good guys, and Harry utterly dismisses them.  Even the weight of 
Dumbledore's and Hagrid's opinion cannot shake Harry from his 
conviction that Snape is the sum of everything wrong in the WW.

Which is doubly strange when contrasted with his view of the half-
blood Prince.  When has Harry *ever* connected so completely with a 
book?  He follows the Prince's advice in everything.  Even when one 
of his spells nearly leads to Harry murdering a classmate, Harry 
defends the Prince.   

To tie this back in to the parallel between Snape and Harry that the 
books seem to have drawn, I wonder if Harry doesn't see himself in 
Snape and not like what he sees?  Hmm, I might be taking things too 
far but...oh what the hell <g>.  

Snape's contempt for Neville is rather matched by Harry, I think.  
Harry has always (up to the end of OotP, anyway) seen Neville as 
somewhat pathetic.  I wonder if part of his anger at Snape's 
treatment of Neville isn't based partially on his own desire to 
shake the stupid off the boy.  Snape expresses frustration at 
Hermione's know-it-allness; the very same frustration Harry often 
feels. Harry thinks Snape is far too attached to the dark arts, but 
Harry seems to be having his own little love affair with the Crucio 
curse (if at first you don't succeed?).  Harry worries that Sirius 
may be loosing it, Snape quite helpfully proves that he is.

> >>Jen:
> I think the one Slytherin trait Harry is lacking at the moment is 
> coming to terms with the idea of power. 
> <snip>
> Somehow Harry will have to move from feeling like an underage,     
> unqualified wizard to the One with the Power. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Perhaps, once Harry sees Snape as a whole, sees the good side to the 
man, he'll recognize the good side to himself?  I'm probably not 
making any kind of sense, but if Snape represents everything Harry 
fears about himself, maybe confronting those fears will provide 
Harry with a new understanding of himself.  If he finally sees Snape 
with Lily's eyes (as you spoke of, Jen, in the part I snipped) maybe 
he'll finally see himself through his mother's eyes too.  And that 
might be where that "power the dark lord knows not" resides.  
Especially when you see how Voldemort treated *his* father figures.  
Couldn't kill them fast enough, it seems.  And if he couldn't kill 
them, he ran from them.

Betsy Hp, who may or may not, be totally crazy <g>