Prodigal Sons

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 140650

>> Msbeadsley wrote:
> First off, my handle is Ms., not Mrs., Beadsley; please make a note of
> it. ;-)

Magpie:

Sorry about that!

Msbeadsley:
 (I just almost wrote that wrong again *knocks head against wall*)

> This is rather personal, isn't it? Sorry if I got under your skin. And
> I rebut: unlike Elder Brother, I am not asking for or expecting
> anything for myself. My sense of and longing after what I perceive to
> be justice is not predicated upon any notion that *I* am better or
> more deserving than Draco, Snape, or Dudley (tho' Harry is, absolutely
> <eg>); if I had done the things they have, I'd deserve punishment as
> well. On the occasions when I have behaved like them (and there have
> been a few), I've taken my lumps. And I prefaced my comments by saying
> outright I was not angelic. Perhaps JKR will take some or all of these
> three characters through grace and obviate the need for punitive
> measures, and perhaps she will do it in such a way that I and others
> are satisfied.

Magpie:
Oh no, it didn't get under my skin, and I wasn't trying to make any kind of 
personal remark. I really did just see something to comment on about the 
things described in the post and used it as a jumping off point, I didn't 
mean to be any kind of comment or judgement on you personally.  Sorry if I 
made you feel you had to defend yourself that was completely not my 
intention.

It's true I don't read any of the bully characters in canon and want to see 
them punished, but I think that's strictly about reactions different people 
have to fictional characters--not any comment on one's moral fiber or 
anything.  It's just that this subject seems to be one that is dealt with in 
canon--there's so many bullies and victims who become bullies and people 
dealing out justice or needing justice it seemed like an on topic subject.

With Draco, actually, I think he is punished in canon throughout the series, 
so it does tend to surprise me when people say they are waiting for him to 
be punished. He takes his lumps a lot--which is not to say that he's a 
victim and everyone should just feel sorry for him whatever he does.  It's 
just I thought Draco's story was exactly the kind of thing I'd prefer to 
have done with the character as punishment, if that's the right word.  I 
think there are hints that JKR may see it that way, given her "I always knew 
this was coming for Draco" and "the darkness is coming" remarks.  To me the 
sort of thing he's going through now is more grueling, painful and likely to 
change him than many other forms of comeuppance might be. That's the reason 
I loved the idea of Regulus even back in OotP where all we knew was that he 
joined the DEs, realized what it really meant, and was killed for trying to 
leave.  When a character "deserves" the horrible situation they're in I feel 
for them more acutely, whereas some people find comeuppance more satisfying.

With Snape, without knowing some of the things about him, I can't say for 
sure what will make him change or not.  In general he seems like such a 
miserable person who makes himself miserable I never think about wanting to 
see him punished.  When he bullies Neville or Harry, for instance, I want 
him to stop for Neville's sake and his own sake, but I don't want to, for 
instance, see somebody bullying him. That actually does probably spill over 
into real life, but I can't consider it a moral issue because it's not a 
struggle.  It's just not where my mind goes.  I mean, I want satisfaction 
from the text as much as anyone, it's just different people may imagine 
satisfaction coming in different ways.  I can't really see Snape lasting 
beyond Book VII, and if that's the case it seems like he'd have spent his 
whole life torturing himself (and others).

Msbeadsley:

 > One more point: I am utterly convinced that, literarily, Snape is
> deliberately written in manner that means we love to hate him. (JKR
> has described him as "deeply horrible" and "sadistic" and fun to
> write. Hmmm?) I'm convinced he's (rather wretchedly) on the side of
> good; he's the anti-hero (and I'm having trouble recalling many
> stories which offer both a hero and anti-hero, piling on to my
> admiration for JKR); the "anti-" is why we hate him, and the "-hero"
> is why we love, or love to hate him.

Magpie:

Yes, I agree that does seem to be the way he's written, and I tend to lean 
towards anti-hero as well, as opposed to villain.

Msbeadsley:
> I like your explanation for the Map's response to Snape; I had always
> figured it would defend itself against *anyone* who tried to pry into
> its secrets absent the password, but the personal nature of its
> response fits very well.

Magpie:
Yes, it's odd that I just kind of immediately thought this was the way they 
talked to him when it could just as easily have been the way the Map would 
speak to anyone doing what Snape was doing.  But now that we know the truth 
it's all the better to think the Map would be naturally charmed to deal with 
*Severus* snooping, since he always would have been at the time the Map was 
made.  And as I said in another post, I do think that Snape aggressively 
annoyed MWPP while at school, so it wasn't a case of them just picking on 
him because he was ugly.

-m