UV = DDM? (was:Re: OFH! Snape again. WAS: Straightforward readings?

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 140818

> >>Phoenixgod: 
> I would agree with this, whatever else you think about Snape, he is 
> a talented man at many things.
> I have to say that I recently reread Spinners End and I'm becoming 
> more open to the interpretation of A DDM!Snape for two reasons.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yay!  I should stop reading your post right about now, huh?  (Or is 
this the moment I should demand to know who you are and what have you 
done with the real Phoenixgod?) <g>

> >>Phoenixgod:
> I saw a lot of Snape circling around The Plan without saying       
> anything even remotely specific about it. It strikes as someone who 
> is trying to bluff their way through a plan when they don't really 
> know what's going on.

Betsy Hp:
I had similar suspicions, but Snape immediately stops poking around 
right around the time Narcissa is about to spill the beans.  It 
strikes me as a strange time to stop if you're trying to figure out 
what's going on.

However, if you're the author trying to keep knowledge shared by all 
the characters in a scene out of your audiences hands, it's a 
*perfect* time to stop.  Which is why I've come to the conclusion 
that Snape does actually know what's going on.

> >>Phoenixgod:
> <snip>
> The title of the chapter itself also seems to indicate the end of   
> the spinner himself, Severus Snape. He finally manages to outsmart 
> himself in his highstakes game.

Betsy Hp:
This I do agree with.  But I think it's because Snape decided to do 
the Unbreakable Vow.  I think he was trying to tie Narcissa's (and by 
extention, the Malfoy's) hands, and he ended up tying his own.

> >>Phoenixgod:
> So while I can buy a DDM Snape (reluctantly) the only way I can see 
> it working is if Snape is ignorant of the plan, at least at first, 
> and ends up trapped through his own machinations.

Betsy Hp:
Hmm.  I actually think it works even better if Snape thinks he's 
about to *improve* on Dumbledore's plan. It shows a certain over 
confidence that often goes before a fall.  (Kinda like Luke's "You'll 
find I'm full of surprises" in ESB just before Vader totally kicks 
his ass.)
 
> >>Betsy Hp:  
> > So, Dumbledore tells Snape that he's going to allow Draco a bit   
> > of a free rein during the school year (the freedom to choose is 
> > essential to Draco's moral salvation per Dumbledore's personal   
> > code).

> >>Phoenixgod: 
> Don't get me started on how stupid this was as a plan.  Sure, lets 
> have an mildly competent assassin running around the school. Great 
> idea!

Betsy Hp:
I agree with this actually.  It does seem recklessly dangerous.  But 
this is the same man who decided to let a known Voldemort supporter 
run around Hogwarts for an entire school year (PS/SS).  Honestly, I 
think the WW has a totally different idea of basic personal safety.  
(The Knight Bus doesn't only lack seatbelts, the seats aren't even 
bolted to the floor. And then there's Quidditch.)

> >>Phoenixgod:
> I'm still not convinced that Dumbledore is dying throughout the    
> book. He would have done more to prepare people for the aftermath   
> of his death. everyone was so awestruck by his demise it was like   
> they had never considered that he might not survive, but I cannot   
> imagine that he, Albus Dumbledore, master strategist would have    
> left people with that impression unless he wasn't actually planning 
> on dying.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But we have hints of a spy at Hogwarts, don't we?  Dumbledore feels 
that if he even approached Draco, Narcissa would be dead.  I'm 
thinking Dumbledore wasn't too up on who he could fully trust.  I 
think Snape was honestly his most trusted man.  And I think 
Dumbledore *was* preparing everyone for his death.  He really pushes 
Harry to learn everything Dumbledore knows about Voldemort.  He 
leaves the school tons of times so I'm sure McGonagall was pretty 
much the defacto headmistress for all of HBP.  He makes sure Snape is 
put into a position where Voldemort is sure to trust him.  He makes 
sure someone is there to look after the Slytherins when he and Snape 
are gone.  And he really pushes himself to find as many of the 
horcruxes he can before the end.

Everything about Dumbledore's character in HBP seemed to read, hurry, 
hurry, hurry, to me.  And usually Dumbledore is a fairly patient man, 
allowing others to arrive at the conclusion he reached eons ago at 
their own pace.

> >>Phoenixgod:
> If it was a surprise then the chaos after his death could lead to   
> any number of gains by the death eaters, including more recuits who 
> might have lost their way after the great hope of the light died.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But there wasn't really any moment of chaos was there?  The Order 
didn't crumble.  Hogwarts may close, but that has little to do with 
the fight against Voldemort now (as Harry has concluded).  If 
Dumbledore had told folks he was dying *that* would have sent the 
Order into a tail-spin.  Any perceived weakness on Dumbledore's part 
would have been exploited to the max by Voldemort.  Which is why, I 
think, Dumbledore didn't hide his injury.  After all, if it was a bad 
injury he *would* try to hide it, right?  By showing little interest 
in it Dumbledore implied that it was no big deal.  And the Order 
continued on.  And Harry continued on.  And Hogwarts continued on.

Yes, McGonagall floundered a tiny bit on whether to keep Hogwarts 
open.  But it was a small flounder, and if Hogwarts had been 
attacked... erm, again, I'm sure the Order would have fought just as 
hard (if not harder) and just as smoothly as when Dumbledore *was* 
there.  (Especially when you notice that Dumbledore didn't do any 
actual directing the first time aruond, being busy with horcrux 
hunting and all that.)

> >>Phoenixgod: 
> Dumbledore was good (but not perfect) at the deep game of chess and 
> he might have laid out any number of plans with Snape but I don't 
> think any of them would have ever involved the willing sacrifice of 
> his own life. 
> Death might be the next great adventure but I don't think that DD   
> was quite finished with this one.

Betsy Hp:
Of course Dumbledore didn't *choose* to die!  He destroyed the ring 
horcrux and was mortally wounded as a result.  I think if it weren't 
for Snape, Dumbledore may have died right then.  But I think Snape 
was only able to give him a stop-gap, a tiny bit of time during which 
Dumbledore carefully placed his final pieces on the board.  No, 
Dumbledore didn't choose death, but when it came he did choose to not 
freeze in the face of it and to make sure his death was meaningful.

It won't surprise me at all if Harry receives a final letter or 
something from Dumbledore once he's returned to the Dursleys (his one 
true sanctuary, for now).

Betsy Hp