[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape as a bully? (was Bullying was Prodigal Son)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 140830

On 28 Sep 2005 at 2:45, phoenixgod2000 wrote:

> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Shaun Hately" <drednort at a...> >
> So - that's where my perspective comes from. > > Is Snape a bully?
> Ooh, that is a very hard question - because like so > many others it
> depends a lot on the definitions that you use. > Personally, on my own
> definitions (and these are informed by a wide > range of formal
> definitions, but are also quite personal), I would > say that the
> adult Snape is not a bully - at least not necessarily. > To me, part
> of what makes somebody a bully is their motivation - a > bully bullies
> out of selfish self-gratification. In my view, it is > quite likely
> that Snape believes his behaviour in the classroom and > in the school
> is to the benefit of the students - some people will > disagree
> vehemently about whether it is or not, but even a mistaken >
> motivation is still a motivation. 
> 
> Is it a motivation or a justification? Snape could be telling himself
> that he is doing them a favor because he is making them tougher in
> order to justify his feelings of selfish self-gratification.  There is
> plenty of precedent of those who are bullied turning around and
> bullying others in order to make themselves feel stronger.

It's motivation, in my view, rather than justification for the very 
simple reason that the action, in most cases, comes in clear response 
to a stimulus.

Neville is the student who we see as the greatest target of Snape's 
wrath. I've analysed Snape's interactions with Neville in detail (up 
until HBP - I need to look at that again) and the incidents generally 
come after Neville has done something wrong.

There is a trigger incident.

If Snape was just going back to find an excuse after he'd done it, 
that would be justification. If he is reacting to something genuine, 
it's not just justification.

And if all Snape wants to do is bully students, he doesn't need any 
justification to do it. As you point out a little later, the power in 
this situation is with Snape - the students do not have the power to 
counter him.

And so he doesn't need a justification for what he does, because 
there is nobody for him to justify it to. He doesn't need to justify 
it to himself - and a bully will not do so under normal 
circumstances.

> I have noted in the past that 
> > Snape's actions against Neville, for example, nearly always come
> > immediately after Neville *has* done something wrong. They don't 
> come 
> > out of nowhere.
> 
> True, but he bullies Harry on the first day a school pretty much in a
> vacuum and of course there is Hermione's teeth, his verbal insult
> towards neville in front of Lupin (when Nev hadn't done anything to
> Snape yet) and other scenes where he is clearing going for the pain
> for pretty much no other reason than he has the power to do it.

Case by case -

No, he didn't bully Harry in a vacuum. We didn't know why he was 
acting that way towards Harry at the time, but we have since learned 
a lot of background to Snape's attitudes towards Harry's father. That 
makes Harry an unusual case - but also may speak to motivation if 
Snape believes Harry is likely to be like his father, he may well 
believe that he needs to step on him hard. Is he right to do so? 
Probably not. Motivations aren't always correct - but it is easy to 
see a clear motivation for Snape's behaviour.

Hermione's teeth - that one I totally disagree with. Snape acted 
completely and utterly inappropriately on that occasion, in my view. 
But one incident of utterly inappropriate behaviour does not make 
someone a bully.

With regards to Neville, no, Neville hadn't done anything at the 
time, this is true. But Neville does have a history of making 
elementary mistakes in Snape's classes and they have just had a 
class. I don't approve of what Snape does here, by any means, but I 
can certainly believe he still had Neville's class behaviour well in 
mind.

I also don't see these scenes where he is 'going for the pain for 
pretty much no other reason than he has the power to do it'. I think 
he may have a reason - a belief that this is the way to teach 
students.
 
> > Snape is nasty. That doesn't make him a bully.
> 
> No, the fact he's nasty to people without the power to strike back
> does.

No, that wouldn't make him a bully. The target's power to resist is 
irrelevant to whether or not somebody is a bully or not. I was 
bullied a lot when I was at school, and I generally did have the 
power to resist what they were doing. I chose not to, but that's 
another matter.

A bully will often choose somebody who is powerless as their target - 
but that doesn't make the disparity in power the reason the person is 
a bully.

James and Sirius bully Snape - and he certainly does have the power 
to resist them. He tries to draw his wand, and ultimately he even 
wounds James. The fact he can resist doesn't make them any less 
bullies.
 
Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
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