Bullying WAS: Re: Prodigal Sons

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 140878


> M.Clifford wrote:
> 
> > Going off on my own sort of tangent here, I don't think that 
> > people change. 
> 
> Unless their name is James, of course. Right? :-)
> 
> Irene

Valky:
I've always argued that James didn't change and was always inside the
same person, as a bully and as the hero. You must have me confused for
someone else, ;D I am sure that we will see in the end of the series,
that James' personality was essentially consistent throughout. 

eg:
As a new kid in Hogwarts, he befriended Lupin and he refused to become
prejudiced against Lupin when he discovered the Werewolf Secret. He
enjoyed the risk and the challenge, and he cared about Lupin. 
As an older kid he targetted Snape and Bullied him, Snape invented a
really dark curse that we know of, and he was deeply enamoured of the
Dark Magic that was destroying the world James lived in, Snape *was*
pretty dangerous. Again James is doing something that is a risk and a
challenge to some degree in taking on Snape, and he hates Dark Arts,
which show that he's *caring* about *someone's* (the people he expects
Snape to use Dark Magic on) welfare again, even if its not Snape's.
Later he Saves Snape from the werewolf at great risk to his life.
Again same story - he's into risk and danger, and he's caring about
someone's welfare, this time it *is* Snape. 

All up, the essential James is already pretty consistent IMO.



Valky:
> that
> Lupin is referring only to Snapes actions as of sixth year, is
> speculation, albeit fairly well based.

Magda:
If you look at the context of Lupin's comment, it came during the
part where they tell Harry that when James and Lily began going out
in 6th year, James had de-swelled his head and stopped hexing people
just for the fun of it. Harry asks, even Snape? And they say, well
Snape was a special case, he never lost the opportunity to hex James.
Harry asks, and Lily was okay with that? And they say, well she
didn't know.

Valky:
I think it says they started seeing each other in seventh year, rather
than sixth. Snape therefore must have only hexed James a few times
before graduation. Never seems like the wrong word for that, it just does.
 

Magda:
So from that context, it's pretty clear that they are talking about
what happened AFTER the Pensieve Incident. Now if you want to claim
that - in the middle of the conversation about what happened in sixth
year - Lupin and Sirius suddenly began describing things that
happened in earlier years without letting Harry know that they were
switching gears, then be my guest.

But I disagree.


Valky:
Yeah and no. I realise that Lupin did say this in that context, which
is why I believe your argument is fairly well based. But then again,
we do know that Snape invented and used the curse he invented "for
enemies" before that, as well as the levicorpus which became the thing
to do in Hogwarts for a quite long season according to Lupin, before
the Pensieve. Sirius recalls that Snape liked to be involved in
tailing the Marauders to get them in trouble, and he always hated
James, according to Dumbledore their relationship was similar to Draco
and Harry's in PS/SS, which is definitely an unpleasant one from both
sides. I don't think it's in character for Severus Snape to sit on his
hands for six years while people get them best of him and his
inventions, without at least getting in a couple of stealth shots on
the person he hates most to tide him over. I think Lupin was drawing
on a needed justification because it was right to tell Harry the
truth, but he gave it in generalised language which could mean he was
recalling more than just that one year or less in an unspecified way.
The fact that he said Snape was a special case, first, definitely IMO
implies that the special case applies to the whole of their
relationship, not just part.

Valky