Bullying WAS: Re: Prodigal Sons

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 140888

> >>Ceridwen:
> <snip>
> I *liked* what I heard in the opening speech.  It seemed to me that 
> here was a teacher who really loved his subject.  I was brutally 
> shocked, meaning I was thrown out of the narrative, when the 
> narrative itself didn't like him.  That didn't make sense to me.  It
> seemed that the narration was actively trying to influence my 
> feelings as a reader.

Betsy Hp:
Exactly my feelings!  I think I got that the narrative wasn't fully 
trustworthy, but I read the book so quickly (in an afternoon) and I 
wasn't sure if JKR was being serious about the stereotypes (yes, one 
quarter of the school *is* made up of evil wizards).  So I wasn't 
sure how to see Snape.  He seemed so cool, but I wasn't sure if he 
was supposed to be the cool good guy or the cool villain.  And since 
I just poured through the book there wasn't much time for 
contemplation.

However, I do remember being quite surprised when Harry *continued* 
hating Snape in the very next book.  I thought it'd all been 
straightened out.  Snape was the cool good guy; he'd saved Harry's 
life.  Shouldn't Harry have felt a sort of sheepish, "heh, misjudged 
you a bit and thanks for saving my life" thing once school started up 
again?

But I thought Harry would get it.  Snape was so cool (again), 
especially when compared to Lockhart.  And once more he seemed to be 
interested in Harry's safety, the school's safety, etc.  That Harry 
was so reluctant to acknowledge that fact was.... Well actually, I 
thought it sort of amusing in a "when will Harry learn" sort of way.

> >>Ceridwen:
> <snip>
> Going back to PS/SS, I thought I would like to be a student in 
> Potions.  Thinking back to all of the encounters between Snape and 
> Harry, Neville, Hermione, and Ron, and willing myself back to that 
> first impression, I'm beginning to see something that a thoroughly
> objective narrative might have mentioned, but since we only get 
> Harry's impressions, it never does - Harry and Ron might just be    
> some disruptive students.  Ron made a comment in CoS, I believe it 
> was, that they had better things to do in Potions than listen to   
> Snape.
> !?!
> Better things to do in class than listen to the teacher?  If I'd   
> been even a vaguely serious student in Potions, I might not have 
> appreciated having them in my class.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Absolutely.  Actually, Harry and Ron (and even Hermione at times) do 
act up in Snape's classroom.  In GoF, IIRC, they're reading an 
article on Harry, and yes, Snape catches them and yes, he reads the 
article, complete with amusing asides, to the rest of the class.  
Well of course he does!  Why on earth were they reading the article 
in class?  (Frankly, it's a strong argument *against* Snape being a 
sadistic and abusive teacher.  Students don't set themselves up so 
neatly for a sadistic and abusive teacher in my experience.)

Also, though he does have a reputation for being strict, none of the 
other Gryffindors seem to fear him.  When Snape makes unfair 
accusations in Lupin's DADA class both Dean and Padma have no problem 
directly questioning him.  

No, Harry definitely has a bias.  I think to see Snape with any sort 
of clarity you have to be aware of Harry's filter and try and work 
around it.

> >>Ceridwen: 
> I can understand him not caring for Neville blowing things up and 
> melting cauldrons.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
And it's possible for me to see Snape's constant riding of Neville 
(especially in PoA) as an attempt on his part to get Neville through 
his third year Potions.  Neville is in Potions in his fourth year so 
whatever Snape did must have worked. (I believe it's established that 
a student can fail a class.  Don't Ron and Harry hope this will 
happen to either Crabbe or Goyle?)

> >>Ceridwen:
> I am no longer convinced that Snape is bullying anyone.  I am 
> convinced that this is how Harry perceives it.  This is how we're 
> shown it.  This is what we come away with.  The change I think it  
> was Betsy mentioning, when Harry tells Snape that he doesn't have  
> to call him `sir', and the immediate change in the narrative       
> perception of Snape after that, is a point in favor, and part of   
> what made me think of this in relation to the bullying threads.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Actually, Houyhnhnm is the one who pointed out that the descriptors 
change with regards to Snape once Harry made the "sir" crack.  I do 
agree that there is a change.  I don't think it's necessarily for the 
better, in that I still don't think Harry is seeing Snape clearly.  
However there is a certain kind of evolving going on, and Harry is 
starting to grow up.  (Finally developing a bit of sympathy for Draco 
was a good sign, IMO.)  It will be fascinating to see how Snape looks 
once book 7 is done.  (If his hair is described as "silky" in the 
last chapter, I will die laughing. <g>)

Betsy Hp