Harry's bias again WAS: Bullying WAS: Re: Prodigal Sons

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 140901

Alla:
> 
> Hmmm,  there are some actions by Snape which luckily could not be 
> described differently, IHarry's POV or not, IMO.
> 
> For example, the much debated first scene. Are you suggesting that 
> Harry did something wrong here and did not tell us about it at all ?
> 
> I thought you argued that Snape thought that Harry was a Dark Lord 
> in making  and that is why he decided to come down hard on him?
> 
> Doesn't it show Snape's bias about Harry?

Ceridwen:
Actually, Betsy was replying to what I said.  I was giving my 
impressions of the first Potions class, and going back to my own 
school days as well.  I recall people in class doing things like 
trimming each others' hair, doodling, reading magazines, just being 
bored, and so forth, which draw the teacher's eye.  When caught out 
by the teacher, they honestly don't know why they're in trouble or 
why the teacher is 'picking on them'.  At that point, HBP had not 
been written, so we don't have Snape's explanation for anything.  
And, I don't quite trust his explanation to Bella, who was doing some 
picking on Snape herself at the time.

I do think Harry might display himself in class as someone who *has* 
to be there, and a teacher who can come up with a spiel like the one 
Snape delivers in the first class, wouldn't care to see an unwilling 
student.  They do tend to ignore lessons (as Harry, Ron and Hermione 
have done since), and at the worst end of the spectrum, they can 
disrupt the class so others won't learn.  Harry wouldn't realize this 
is what he's doing.  Very few kids do.  Even the ones who are doing 
something, like doodling or reading magazines, still think the 
teacher is in the wrong for singling them out: 'Yeah, I was writing 
Mary + John, but he didn't have to go making such a big deal out of 
it'.  Or, Harry might have been engaging in other behavior which 
doesn't seem out of line to him, but which, seen by someone else, 
comes across as wrong.  Again, he may not notice.  But Snape would.

Alla:
> 
> But again, quite often we see Snape's ACTIONS, and quite often we 
> hear words , which would be told the same way by anybody.

Ceridwen:
And if Harry heard him telling Draco the same things, he wouldn't get 
upset at all, or think it was out of line.

Alla: 
> Granted, Snape's "bullying Neville" is subjective ( although I of 
> course think Harry got 100% right :-)), but " I see no difference" 
> to Hermione is completely objective, IMO and anybody would have 
told 
> us that Snape said those words, although of course if Draco was 
> describing the SCENE we would have got very different picture.

Ceridwen:
And McGonagall and others have made sarcastic comments without a 
judgement filter being thrown into the scene.  Her homework in spite 
of Death To Us All comment is sarcastic, and could be taken as her 
not caring for Harry, Ron or Hermione.  But there is no value placed 
in narrative for that one, while there is with Snape's comment.  I 
think we're *supposed* to think, feel, and learn along with, Harry.

Alla:
> But I remain convinced that   there is an objective picture of 
> bullying on Snape's behalf, Harry's bias or not.
> 
> And of course Harry IS biased against Snape, it is just I believe 
> that Snape is the ONLY one to blame for such bias, since when Harry 
> first arrived to  the lesson , he had no such bias against Snape.

Ceridwen:
But, he did.  One of the Weasleys tipped him off to the 'awful' 
teacher before they got there.  As I mentioned in my first post about 
this, the youngest sold PS/SS at a yard sale to get some spending 
money (and not have to pack so much when we moved), so I really can't 
find the reference.  But he's pegged as a suspected former DE, 
someone loyal to the guy who killed Harry's parents, before they even 
got to school or to class.  I'd be a bit miffed at having to sit 
under the instruction of someone who supported my parents' killer.  
No, I'd probably be angry and unwilling to take an active part.  And, 
Snape was also said to be prejudiced against Gryffindors.  Later, 
Harry is sorted, after arguing with the Hat, into Gryffindor, based 
largely upon what the Weasleys told him about Slytherin.  So he's 
already expecting bad treatment, on two levels.

And, he's probably presenting his expectations.  Unknowingly, of 
course, so he's completely in the dark about any culpability on his 
part.  Snape's already primed for the 'celebrity', and his own 
prejudices of James, and what he expects the son will be like do come 
into play.  But at the time, we don't know that, either.  So, Snape 
sees the 'celebrity', bored at being there, too good for the rest of 
the class, and decides to make an example.  Which a lot of teachers 
do.  I've had that happen to people in classes over the years: 'Just 
because you're on the football team doesn't mean you will get a pass 
in my class.  Sit up and pay attention'.  And of course, the student 
this is directed to, doesn't realize he was doing anything other than 
just sitting there.

This is, of course, how it seems to me.

Ceridwen.