Bullying WAS: Re: Prodigal Sons

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 140935

> Finwitch:
> 
> Reassuring James' wasn't ALL bad (telling all the good sides, that 
is)
> was important too - just as important as the stopping part. It did
> ease Harry about his father. Badmouthing Snape in this incident 
would
> have made matters worse. I bet Sirius and Lupin could identify the
> memory--

zgirnius:
Yes, I am sure they could. Harry's description would have included 
several specifics that would bring it to mind, I imagine. Lily's 
involvement probably distinguishes it from other possible incidents, 
and the timing-during OWL exams.

It still seems to me that Sirius does not have preserving what little 
positive feelings for Snape Harry may have as a priority. But I will 
agree it is a plausible reason for Lupin not to bring up past bad 
behavior by young Snape. (Just contrast Sirius and Lupin's reactions 
to learning Snape has refused to continue teaching Occlumency. Both 
are concerned, but Sirius threatens to act in a manner that can only 
add fuel to the fire. Not to say I would have expected Sirius to 
react differently...)

> Finwitch:
> 
> That incident happened before Sirius got worried about Harry's
> Occlumency-lessons. That was when Snape comes up and tells Harry
> (after questioning Sirius' presence in Sirius' own house in a matter
> concerning his godson) that Dumbledore told him to teach Occlumency.
> You'll notice that Sirius questions this. "Why you?" - I think it's
> not merely about Snape teaching, but also Snape informing. Sirius is
> to take Snape's word on this...? And I bet Sirius had a good guess 
on
> what might happen to his poor godson in these lessons... I'd say
> Sirius demanded Phineas to tell Dumbledore to pay a visit and had a
> heated discussion with Dumbledore about this special lesson-plan.
>  
> As I saw it, Sirius was mainly upset because these Order-members 
were
> stepping over his status as Harry's godfather and appointed 
guardian.
> You know, it's bad enough with Crouch' having put him into Azkaban
> where he spent 12 years with Dementors - without so much as a 
trial -
> for something he didn't do - meaning he hasn't been able to do his
> duty as Godfather. Then, Dumbledore &al. know he's innocent, even if
> WW on the whole doesn't - and he *did* get to do godfathering for a
> year - I think he felt very much betrayed when people who ought to
> know he's innocent ignore his godfatherhood and even act to prevent
> him acting like one. That's very deep insult to him.

zgirnius:
Well, I think it did contribute to Harry's bad feelings about 
Occlumency with Snape, and Sirius woudl understand this. Not that5 it 
is reasonable to expect him to have reacted in any other way, I am 
not saying I *blame* Sirius. As you point out above, Sirius was being 
rather shabbily treated in regards to his claims as Harry's 
godfather. I also find his hatred of Snape at this juncture to be 
entirely understandable as well based on Snape's role in the Shack.

> Finwitch:
> 
> Well, that he flat out refused to listen is that to me. You know,
> Lupin used Legilimency to get the truth out of Sirius first thing.
> (it's pretty obvious from the description now that we know about
> them.) We know (per OOP) that Snape can do that, too. He keeps doing
> that to Harry. Why didn't he do it to Sirius as well? He flat out
> refuses to listen-- to even consider the possibility that Sirius 
might
> be innocent - just because of a teenage grudge.

zgirnius:
Lupin is an old friend of Sirius', and out of this old friendship he 
has already helped Sirius to the extent that he has not revealed to 
anyone that Sirius is an Animagus. Further, Lupin has just learned 
that, whatever his other crimes might be, Sirius is innocent of the 
murder of Peter Pettigrew. (Since said Peter Pettigrew is, according 
to the Marauders' Map, wandering the Hogwarts grounds...) Snape has 
neither of these advantages. His actions are not optimally fair or 
considered or just, but they are reasonable IMO.

Finwitch:
> And IMO Snape's been acting like a teenager troughout all the books.
> Harry's entitled to that because he IS one. Snape ought to have 
grown
> out of it by now. He has spent several years surrounded by
> Dumbledore's trust - whereas Sirius spent 12 years alone with
> Dementors, which does tend to cause insanity. (Obsession in Sirius'
> case. Lucky for him, that got him out)

zgirnius:
Overall I would tend to agree with your argument that Sirius has more 
reason to behave like a teenager than Snape does. Why Snape has not 
grown out of it is IMO an interesting question, and I enjoy reading 
everyone's speculations and thoughts here about it.