Identifying Enemies/Twins

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 140936

> >>Hickengruendler:
> > I have very mixed feelings bout the twins. On the one hand, I   
> > think they can be highly entertaining, ... However, on the other 
> > hand, there are things like the Dudley incident, in which ...    
> > are not funny at all, IMO.

> >>bboyminn: 
> Yes, that joke was slightly malicious, but then all joke on another
> person are. In short, everyone one likes a joke except the person 
> who is the butt of the joke.

Betsy Hp:
Which is why practical jokers walk a very thin line between being 
funny and being bullies.  The twins seem to cross that line and 
everyone's so busy laughing they don't quite recognize the cruelty 
of the humor.  (And why, like Hickengruendler I'm not sure how to 
take the twins.  Are they merely funny or is there something darker 
lurking back there?)

> >>Hickengruendler:
> > However, I don't even think giving Dudley that candy was the    
> > worst thing they did this day. The worst thing was              
> > *leaving*. 
> > <snip>

> >>bboyminn:
> Let's not lose perspective, this was a joke product that Fred and
> George fully intended to sell to their friends and classmates. It 
> is extremely unlikely that they would kill a pack of their friends 
> for a few Galleons profit or even for a few laughs.
> Further, it is very likely that the Ton-Tongue Toffee was
> self-limiting. That is, much like the Canary Cream, the effect    
> ended after a period of time and things reverted back to normal.

Betsy Hp:
Was it?  Fred tells Harry, "...we've been looking for someone to 
test them on all summer..." (GoF scholastic hardback p.51)  I *hope* 
Fred is exaggerating here.  Surely he and George wouldn't be so 
colossally stupid as to use an untested product on someone with such 
a weak immune system (Dudley being a non-magically protected 
Muggle).  But if Fred's telling the truth it means they used 
something not yet ready to sell to their friends and classmates.

As to it being self-limiting, George asks his father, "How big did 
his tongue get?" (ibid p.53) Which suggests the joke was that the 
growth would go on for a while.  And when Arthur tells the boys he 
had to shrink Dudley's tongue himself, no one says, oh, it would 
have gone back to normal on its own.

Really, this is part of the reason I'm unclear on how the twins are 
supposed to be seen.  The reader has to assume so much (they didn't 
really mean for Dudley to suffocate to death, they would have felt 
bad if Montague had died, they wouldn't have let Katie Bell bleed to 
death, beating a furry animal to death is only a sign of high 
spirits, etc.) and Harry seems to buy those assumptions himself.  So 
am I being a wet-blanket when I point out that they seem to have an 
awful lot of injuries and near death experiences trailing behind 
their "jokes"?

> >>bboyminn:
> <snip>
> But I still say that while the twins may be slightly malicious in 
> their humor, the way all jokes are slightly malicious, I don't     
> think they are vicious or heartless in their humor. Again,        
> everybody enjoys a joke except the person who is the butt of the  
> joke. 

Betsy Hp:
All jokes are not malicious.  Not even practical ones.  And the 
twins aren't always joking when they attack someone.  (They weren't 
laughing when they stuffed Montague into a broken magical device 
that they knew nothing about.  And I doubt they were laughing when 
Montague was finally able to summon enough wild-magic to get himself 
out, barely alive.)

> >>bboyminn: 
> So, again, these joke products are just that, joke products. Fred 
> and George have tested the jokes on themselves...

Betsy Hp:
Or on the first gullible first year or worthless Muggle they can 
find.

> >>bboyminn:
> ...and it seems unreasonable to think they would sell lethal jokes 
> to any kid who came along, or that they would perform a lethal     
> joke on some unsuspecting soul.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, see that's what you'd assume.  And yet, I'm not quite sure 
Fred and George don't think quite the same way you or I would. (They 
smuggle illegal drugs into Hogwarts.  What does that say?)

> >>bboyminn:
> Also take note of Arthur's reaction, he doesn't treat this like
> attempted murder. He treats it like what it is, a joke; a joke in 
> poor taste for sure (as most jokes are), but a joke none the less. 

Betsy Hp:
"[Mr. Weasley] was looking angrier than Harry had ever seen him." 
(ibid p.52)

He then goes on to "shout" "roar" and "rage".  I'm not sure he's 
really treating this like a joke.  Especially since Arthur is 
generally a fairly mild-mannered man. 

> >>bboyminn:
> He doesn't seem worried.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
He doesn't seem worried about Dudley's physical safety. (Of course, 
Arthur has so little knowledge of Muggles in general he may not 
realize that the usual Muggle reaction to a greatly swollen tongue 
is death.)  But Arthur *does* seem worried about what his sons' 
behavior means.  There's an underlying ugliness there that Arthur 
notes, Harry misses, and Molly rolls right over.
 
> >>Hickengruendler:
> > <snip>
> > The twins sort of got their come-uppance for pushing Montague   
> > into the Vanishing cabinet and not caring at all for what       
> > happened to him. It led to the Death Eaters storming the castle, 
> > and in Fred and George's own brother being disfigured forever.

> >>bboyminn:
> And there is more, take the Darkness Powder for example. The Twins
> have learned that there can certainly be greater unforseen
> consequences to their products. They learn a valuable life-lesson;
> they are growing up. 

Betsy Hp:
Do the twins even realize that their actions and their products led 
to Death Eaters in Hogwarts?  We haven't seen that realization on 
page.  Ron has said he's going to talk to them, but that particular 
confrontation hasn't happened yet.  And I'm not certain Fred or 
George will listen to anything Ron has to say to them.  So I think 
you're jumping the gun in saying they've learned anything or have 
grown in anyway.

Betsy Hp