Pureblood Pretenders and Sorting Hat Was (Re: Motivations for Joining DEs )

[ellecain]

No: HPFGUIDX 140973

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "zgirnius" <zgirnius at y...> 
wrote:
> 
> > Elyse: So how come Voldemort was able to masquerade around as a 
> > pureblood? Okay, even if he wasnt faking it, how can he go 
around 
> > telling DE's that he is pureblood? 
> 
> zgirnius:
About Voldemort, I could see this working 
> out in a couple of ways. One way is that it could have been known 
> that Tom Riddle was a half-blood. Early DEs would not have a 
problem 
> with this because, while he is only half wizard, what a half!! 
(The 
> Heir of Slytherin...) And once the Lord Voldemort mystique got 
going, 
> who would ask? Can you see Bella asking the Dark Lord "Pardon me, 
> your glorious Darkness, but what is your *real* name?"

Elyse: LOL! Wouldnt that be a scene? She wouldve gotten hit with a 
Crucio! before you could say "pureblood".

> zgirnius:
> Another would be that he could simply claim that he does not know 
his 
> parentage. (In fact, this would be *true* at the start of his 
school 
> days.)
>SNIP>
So he 
> asserts he *must be* a pureblood, and his claim sticks. (To 
> paraphrase Sluggie, a youth showing such powerful magical 
abilities 
> must come of good, solid wizarding stock...)

Elyse: Yes, I agree it could have happened the way you describe it.
Maybe Riddle never told anyone about his parents, even after he 
found out, claiming he he had no clue himself. Maybe he did tell 
people he was halfblood at first. And yes, as you said, it would be a
suicidal question to ask LV his real name when his nickname itself 
inspires such fear, nobody can bring themselves to say it.

But even in this case, in GoF, he brings Harry to the graveyard 
where he uses his father's bones to renew his body.
And when the Death Eaters make their appearances, Lucius asks how
he managed "this miracle".
And here Voldy spills the beans on his parentage. He says
"My father's bone, naturally, meant that we would have to come 
here,where he was buried." pg 569- the Death Eaters chapter.

So here, all those curious DE's would have had their opportunity.
They could see the grave that Harry was bound to, and could probably 
see the crack in the same grave where the bone powder had come from.
Anyone could have sneaked a look when Harry and Voldemort were 
caught in the phoenix cage, and they would have seen Tom Riddle 
written on it. Their detective work was cut out for them.

But from our experience we know that DE's are hopelessly stupid and 
would not have taken this golden opportunity to find out the real 
name of the person whose robes they were kissing a moment ago.
All hope is lost then! Or is it? 
We have Wormtail, dear Wormtail, who heard all of Voldy's banter 
with Harry about having Muggle parents. His sob story of his witch 
mother being rejected by his Muggle father, and how young Voldy was 
born and later avenged himself on "that fool who gave me his name - 
Tom Riddle".

And there we have it! I imagine that this sort of information would 
not have been available to younger DE's like Wormtail who did not 
know of Tom Riddle. And I guess Wormtail must have been the center 
of gossip among DE's later on. Bella probably begged him to recount 
the magical evening when her master was reborn, and told Wormtail to 
leave out no details. I doubt he would have kept such an exchange 
from her, its not everyday you get the family history of Lord 
Voldemort from his own mouth. And lets face it ;since when has 
Wormtail been much of a secret keeper? ;-)

> > Elyse: I doubt anybody with 
> > that kind of fanatical zeal for killing Mudbloods would allow 
too 
> > many of them into his own house. Not unless they had the 
necessary 
> > qualities anyway.
> >
> zgirnius:
> I tend to cut Salazar Slytherin some slack. The man lived 1000 
years 
> ago and most of what we hear about him seems to be oral tradition, 
> which in that time period can get pretty garbled.

Elyse: But as Hermione says, legend always has a basis in fact.
I doubt anybody would have spread such rumors about Slytherin just 
for the heck of it. He sounds like a pretty scary guy, and I wouldnt 
want to be one he practised his Dark Magic on!

zgirnius:
 I can see some other possible uses for  
> a Basilisk. (To protect the school from Muggle or other attack, 
for 
> example...) 

Elyse: I'm taking this as a joke. It is one isnt it?
I dont see how Muggles could attack Hogwarts if LV himself cant 
penetrate its defences. And what kind of other attack would the 
school be under that you would have to resort to Dark Serpents with 
murderous stares to save youself? Again I think you were probably 
only half serious about this, so never mind.

zgirnius:
> I could see Slytherin House not getting Muggle-borns, but taking 
half-
> bloods and purebloods whose belief systems in some way 
> match "conservative", "pro-pureblood" views. Riddle, for example, 
> cares nothing for his Muggle parent (who he believes at this point 
is 
> his *mother*). Once he learns of its existence, the Wizarding 
World 
> is all he wants to be a part of. I could see Snape (if his 
parents, 
> as we suspect, have an unhappy marriage) to believe that liaisons 
> between Muggles and Wizards/Witches are a *bad idea*, which would 
> also fit. 
<Snip>
> So a half-blood with an interest in DA might also Sort into 
Slytherin.

Elyse: I'm really glad you raised this point. Ive been confused 
about how students are sorted for a while now.
I thought they were placed in the houses purely on the abilities 
they showed - intelligence, bravery, hard work, ambition etc.
So this would not take into account the student's personality or 
direction of development. I assumed that the Sorting Hat wanted to 
place Harry in Slytherin because he had tranferred Slytherin powers 
from LV. It was the magical abilities like Parseltongue that 
mattered, not the ends to which one wanted to use them.

But as you say, if students were sorted according to their 
personality, then pro-pureblood views would have emphasised the 
ideology of the student under the sorting hat. If so then it depends 
on which founder's basic philosophy and world view the student 
agreed with that mattered, more so than the students' individual 
qualities like cunning, cleverness etc.

This seems to be what DD is saying in CoS: (pg 245 Dobby's reward)
******************************************
"'So I should be in Slytherin', Harry said, looking desperately into 
Dumbledore's face. 'The Sorting Hat could see Slytherin's power in 
me and it -'
'Put you in Gryffindor',Dumbledore said calmly. 'Listen to me, 
Harry. You happen to have many qualities Salazar Slytherin prized in 
his hand picked students. His own very rare gift, 
Parseltongue...resourcefulness...determination...a certain disregard 
for rules',he added,his moustache quivering again.'Yet the Sorting 
Hat placed you in Gryffindor. You know why that was. Think.'
'It only put me in Gryffindor', said Harry in a defeated 
voice,'because I asked not to go in Slytherin...'"
*********************************************

Well, then he goes on to say how our choices matter more than our 
abilities. But if this is so, why is it such a big deal for Ravenclaw
students to be intelligent,and Gryffindors to be brave?
And if our choices determine which house we are sorted into, cant we 
change these choices? Cant a Slytherin take the high road? Or a 
Hufflepuff choose laziness, or a Gryffindor choose cowardice?
And does the Sorting enhance the students' strengths in this 
respect, while taking them way from students who have the opposite 
balancing qualities?

Elyse
who is thoroughly confused about the function of the Sorting Hat by 
now and thinks that the House system may not be such a good idea 
after all