Sectumsempra in the pensieve / or not

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 150383

Valky:
> ...How does
> Sirius know what Snape is thinking in the first moment he claps eyes
> on James or vice versa... *(snip)*
> Now from Ron's point of view maybe he could also think that Draco 
and
> Harry hated each other on sight...

Ceridwen:
I had the impression that this quote was supposed to show us that 
James and Snape were much like Harry and Draco, reinforcing 
Dumbledore's words from PS/SS.  Of course, Sirius could be wrong.  
But, maybe James told him.  He of course wouldn't have Snape's word 
for it, unless it was spouted in anger, and angry comments, 
especially from kids, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Potioncat:
> > Peter was a toady. That relationship doesn't reflect well on 
James.

Valky:
> I agree it doesn't, he was clearly a sucker for flattery, a vain and
> concieted boy, no doubt. But there is also an strong element of
> benevolence in James relationship with Peter evident in James' trust
> in him and caring for him right through their adult years together.

Ceridwen:
They were also roommates, from the same house, in the same year, as 
Ron, Neville, Dean and Seamus are Harry's roommates, and there will 
be a closer bond.  This sort of bond goes beyond the surface 
repugnance of a person, unless the person is incredibly repugnant or 
the roommates are incredibly mean.  

I don't think Peter is really all that stupid, since he did learn to 
be an Animagus outside of the curriculum.  Weak, though, yes.  And, 
conniving, proven by his sycophantic behavior in the Pensieve scene, 
and his running to the most powerful wizard he could find once they 
were out of Hogwarts.  I do think he was probably a hero-worshipper 
from before his first year at Hogwarts.  Still, he was roommate and 
year mate, and he was a part of their group.

Potioncat:
> >  James knew Remus for quite a while before he found out about the 
> > furry problem. By then he knew and liked the boy. Werewolves are 
> > dark creatures. Would James have bothered to get to know him if 
he 
> > had known he was a werewolf? 

Valky:
> It's only my opinion, but I do think he would have done. When I put
> together canon James I come up with a boy who didn't indulge in 
fears.

Ceridwen:
If James met Remus for the first time at Hogwarts, he might not have 
known about the 'furry problem' until later.  Remus wouldn't want his 
roommates to know.  The school, Dumbledore, went to great lengths to 
help him hide his condition, he was probably reminded not to 
advertise. Someone in Remus's position would understand the value of 
secrecy.  Obviously, once James, Sirius and Peter found out, they 
didn't turn their backs on him, not out of fear or out of prejudice.  
We can probably wonder what Peter would have done with a different 
set of friends to guide him, but as it stood, Remus was safe enough 
during school with them knowing his position.

I just don't think they knew right away.  I think Remus would not 
have told them, until he had enough trust in them, or until he was 
accidentally outed.  Yet another thing we don't know!  Too many 
things to wonder about!

Valky:
> That is why I contend so vehemently that Snape must have been a
> dangerous boy. James' strongest character quality that we know was
> that he was extraordinarily brave, it makes no sense that someone so
> concieted and so brave at the same time (and concieted about his
> bravery to compound it all) would allow himself to be seen locked in
> eternal battle with an easy target. 

Ceridwen:
Dangerous, or perhaps skilled.  There's no shame in taking on someone 
skilled if they're not dangerous.  It's the skill, after all, whether 
or not that person might use it to harm.  James was also known as 
good at magic, if I recall right.  He would certainly want to show 
himself off with someone equally, or better, skilled.

Valky:
> Personally, I think it might have been because the WW was being so
> hurt by Dark Arts at the time, I understand how a lot of people
> disagree that James and Sirius could be so political at such a young
> age, but I think they were ontological kids, thinking and moralising
> was part of how they expressed themselves I don't think that they 
were
> too young for it at all.

Ceridwen:
Most kids, given the impetus, will be political, I think.  The 
impetus here was VWI.  LV was already amassing his followers while he 
was still in school in the 1940s, and he had known followers by the 
time he reapplied for the DADA position in the 1950s.  So the entire 
WW was politicized, and probably polarized as well.  Sirius and his 
family would only be one example out of many.  Look at the American 
Civil War, or any civil war.  Brothers fight against their brothers, 
and their fathers, and their sisters, too.  It's all idological.  And 
everyone has an opinion, everyone is emotional about it.

Valky:
> I don't think James really did know much about the Dark Arts, he was
> too prejudiced against them, is my guess, and gave them a really 
wide
> berth. While OTOH I believe its possible that Snape was very like
> James in his own way, brave in his own way in delving into the Dark
> Arts to understand them, going where angels fear to tread, I think
> Severus was a political boy too.

Ceridwen:  I don't think any of them could have avoided being 
political.  I wonder if there was a generational element involved.  
There seems to be, with Sirius differing with his parents over LV and 
Pureblood Supremacy, but there may also be one with James and Snape 
as well.  I don't think I recall anyone suggesting that James goes 
against his parents' philosophy, while everyone knows, from canon, 
that Sirius does.  People also, at least from what I've read, think 
that Snape, like James, upholds his family's viewpoint.  There's some 
evidence in canon that the Potters did have the same, or nearly the 
same, values as James, with Sirius staying at their house.  But, 
Sirius couldn't have been the only rebel in that year at Hogwarts, 
could he?

Valky:
> Most of my pondering leads me to a place where James and Snapes 
hatred
> was based on misunderstanding of each other, neither able or willing
> to conceded their likenesses so they concentrated most defiantly on
> their differences instead.

Ceridwen:
And, some likenesses don't get along with each other.  Sometimes, 
strong personalities clash.  There are some types of personalities 
that need to be the Leader, for instance, and another Leader coming 
in would upset the balance of a group, causing friction.  So, their 
likenesses might have been the sort that clash.

Interesting points!  I'm enjoying this discussion.

Ceridwen.