Political positions of the characters/James reacting to Remus' lycanthropy.

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 150395

Alla:
> Ceridwen, could you clarify a bit, please? Are you suggesting that 
> James and Snape also clashed with their parents over their 
> worldviews?
> 
> I am not sure I can see any signs of this in canon as to James.
> 
> I mean, always hated Dark Arts seems to me as something that his 
> parents would have taught him, especially since as you said they 
> took Sirius in.
> 
> As to Snape rebelling, well since we are still fuzzy on the 
> biographical details of his life, I guess it is possible, but what 
> was he rebelling about to his parents? Speculate? :)

Ceridwen:
I definitely did not phrase that well!  A generational element could 
be like Sirius, being opposite his family's stance, or it could be 
like James's situation appears to be, agreeing with his parents' 
stance.  His parents seem to hold the same, or similar, views as 
James, since they took Sirius in.  Remembering, of course, that 
someone might be considered progressive in their own time, while they 
seem more conservative to a much more progressive generation - 
James's parents might have been slightly more conservative while 
still holding the same *basic* viewpoint.

And, fans tend to take for granted that Snape, knowing dark curses 
when he came to Hogwarts, means that he too is following in his 
parents' footsteps.  That isn't necessarily so.  He could be 
following only one parent/grandparent while opposing the other, or he 
could have become so fed up before eleven due to his family's 
*apparent* unhappiness, that he had already gone the other way and 
*somehow* found out about dark curses on his own or through a 
compliant friend of the family.  A friend of mine, who was abused 
from an early age, deliberately went against her parents from at 
least the age of seven.  Taking from real life, then, I can't agree 
wholeheartedly that Snape followed his family's politics.  I also 
can't refute it.  All I can say is, we don't know.

It *seems* that fans tend not to think of the Hogwarts students as 
being political, with the exception of Sirius, who is stated to be 
politically opposed to his parents.  But having lived through the 
protests etc. of the Viet Nam war (which had a major generational 
element to it in part due to the strict reining in during WWII of 
criticism of the government) I doubt, now that Valky has brought it 
up, that Sirius was the only student who opposed his parents; I also 
doubt that agreeing with one's parents is not a political stance, as 
it obviously is a political choice with James.

Sure, it's speculation.  But I do think, with Sirius's home 
situation, it is not outside of canon to wonder if other students 
were not in the same boat, possibly (though no canon to support this) 
Snape.  James is certainly in a political situation, but his is 
directly opposite that of Sirius.  The Black sisters are in the same 
position as James, only on the other side of the political fence.  
Another person we guess at, but have no canon for, is Lucius Malfoy.

I don't think it's wrong, either, to speculate that some parents may 
be trying to ignore the situation, as Fudge and the Ministry did in 
OotP; or to speculate that their children may be more aware and be 
taking stances either for or against what they think their parents 
may believe without many clues to guide them.  These were the ways my 
adolescent friends and I reacted to Viet Nam, I see no reason why WW 
kids would not react in the same ways.

*whew!*  Hope I got it right this time!  ;)

Alla: 
> > I mean, always hated Dark Arts seems to me as something that his 
> > parents would have taught him, especially since as you said they 
> > took Sirius in.
> 
Potioncat:
> 
> I still find it hard to understand "James hated Dark Arts" as 
> something he could learn from his parents, unless it was because of 
a 
> very personal reason. For example, my children would learn that 
> racism is wrong, that drugs are bad...but they probably wouldn't 
walk 
> out of the house hating either of them. But if the Potter family 
had 
> somehow been hurt by Dark Arts, and it was something James had seen 
> or heard about in a vivid way, then it would make sense that he 
hated 
> Dark magic.

Ceridwen:
LV had been active since before James was born.  His parents very 
well could have had a reason to teach forcibly against the Dark 
Arts.  And before LV, there was Grindlewald.  And a hundred years 
before LV, there was another wizard as Dark as he was, so the hatred 
against the Dark Arts could have been passed down, very strenuously, 
through the Potter family, or James's mother's family, for 
generations.  Yes, 'hate' does seem to bring a more personal quality 
to the subject.  Not just didn't agree with them, or thought they 
were wrong, he hated them.  Which sounds more visceral.

Potioncat:
> For the record, I don't think using Dark Arts automatically makes 
one 
> a follower of LV. I would think, regardless of your opinion of 
purity 
> and blood, if you did not approve of dark arts, you would not 
follow 
> LV. So someone like Snape might find himself more and more in 
> association with LV followers.

Ceridwen:
True, preference for the Dark Arts doesn't mean that person is 
automatically going to follow Voldemort.  And true, a preference for 
the Dark Arts during this political time, would make it more likely 
that people who agree with Voldemort will be more likely to be the 
ones who will associate with you.  So if someone is a Dark Arts 
person, he may find himself with no other friends than LV 
sympathizers, despite his own opinion about LV.

Didn't Sirius say that his parents stopped supporting LV when he came 
out with his true agenda, even though they did not stop being 
Pureblood Supremacists?  That, to me, would be the same thing as the 
Dark Arts preference not automatically meaning a preference for LV.

Potioncat:
> Fast forward. Harry uses Dark Arts. Snape never officially finds 
out 
> how he learned it and Merlin knows what DD and McG were told. McG 
is 
> very angry, chews him out, and that's it. He has detention for the 
> rest of the term. So performing Dark Magic doesn't get him sent to 
> Azkaban or tossed out of school (although it could have.)

Ceridwen:
Yes, it does seem that the Dark Arts are not illegal or Harry would 
certainly have been expelled and had his wand broken.  Certain curses 
are Unforgivable, but only those three as far as we know.  Harry was 
lucky that his use of Sectumsempra didn't do worse damage to Draco, 
or Draco's death coupled with the use of a spell in a Dark manner 
(which is Dark according to its inventor) most likely would have 
earned him expulsion, a trial, and a trip to Azkaban.  I think the 
fact that Draco did not die had a lot to do with the reaction Harry 
got from the faculty.

Potioncat:
> I suppose had James been alive, he would have sent a Howler.

Ceridwen:
If he didn't come down to Hogwarts personally to tan Harry's hide!  
He did have a gut-level hatred of the Dark Arts, according to 
Sirius.  I can't imagine him allowing a noisy piece of paper to be 
his only response.

Ceridwen.