Words have consequences

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 150422


> > >>Alla:
> > <snip> 
> > But  my question to everybody (Betcy, and whoever else 
considers   
> > Draco a victim in this situation).
> > What  in your mind should have been appropriate reaction to 
what   
> > Draco did?
<snip verbal sniping at each other bit>


Betcy: 
> Forcing Draco out of their compartment would have  been one 
option.  
> Threatening him if he refused to leave was  another.

Alla:

Okay, so you would allow Gryffindors to use SOME  kind of physical 
force against Draco? Because "forcing" means forcing  physically, no, 
since Draco did not leave when Harry told him to get  out.

Don't you see how subjective it is? Not only Gryffs are in no  shape 
to listen to Draco threats, they cannot make Draco leave by words,  
because he does not erm... leave.

Let me just say again. I don't consider what Gryffs did to be  some 
sort of justice against Draco. I just consider it a reaction. Not  a  
perfect reaction maybe, but perfectly justifiable. Moreover, after  
rereading the scene, I don't see that Gryffs had much choice to 
react  differently, unless of course they wanted to subject 
themselves to  continue listening to Draco's monstrocities.
 
Julie:
I agree that it was a reaction. But as you note, it wasn't a perfect
reaction. In fact it went from reaction to retaliation, and that's  when
they stepped over the line. As Betsy said above, they could have
simply forced Draco and gang out of the compartment and magically
locked the door behind them. It is partly subjective. But there is a 
point when you cross from defending yourself to victimizing, and
that is once your opponent is helpless. Once you've neutralized the
threat (thrown them out) even if it requires force, then any further
attack isn't really justifiable. Not in a moral sense anyway. (For
instance, a cop continuing to beat a suspect with a baton once
the suspect is rendered immobile is not morally justifiable.)
 
For me, that is where Harry and Co. went wrong. Now, it's very
understandable that they reacted this way, especially as they are
teenagers. It was the easy thing to do, the viscerally satisfying 
thing to do. But it wasn't the right thing to do. Which is the trap
we all fall into periodically, don't we, because we're only human.
 
 
Alla again:
And no, I don't think that Harry was in any shape or form to  argue 
with Draco. Harry is clearly getting upset the moment Draco shows up  
and starts talking ( I brought  the quote upthread).

So, thank  you for your answer, I am just still not quite clear as to 
how "forcing  Draco out" helps Gryffindors to keep high moral ground, 
but hexing him (  independently from each other if I may ) does not.


Julie:
See above. High moral ground: neutralizing the threat. Not so 
high moral ground: victimizing once the threat is neutralized. 
I think this scene, along with several dozen other scenes in 
the books, focuses on one of JKR's main themes in Harry Potter,
which is "doing what's right over what's easy." In both small and 
large ways the characters are continually forced to make that choice.
Some fail repeatedly (Peter, for instance), some rarely (Dumbledore,
Lily?), and most of the children in the books vacillate between the
two (including our star character, Harry), while hopefully building 
their characters to the point where they will choose what is right 
rather than what is easy as a regular mode of behavior. 
 
Julie 






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