Harry is almost certainly a horcrux - repost of ideas against

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 150494

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "alcuin74" <alcuin74 at ...> wrote:

Alcuin:
> Having just completed another re-reading of CoS, I'm convinced that 
> Voldemort unwittingly made Harry a horcrux that fateful night in 
> Godric's Hollow.  The conversation between Harry and Dumbledore at 
> the end includes this exchange:
> 
> "You can speak Parseltongue, Harry," said Dumbledore calmly, "because 
> Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar 
> Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue.  Unless I'm much mistaken, he 
> transferred some of his own powers to you the night he gave you that 
> scar.  Not something he intended to do, I'm sure ..."
>    "Voldemort put a bit of himself in *me*?" Harry said, 
> thunderstruck.
>    "It certainly seems so."
> 
> Notice that Harry's response (which Dumbledore nevertheless affirms) 
> goes beyond Dumbledore's original claim.  Not only did Voldemort 
> transfer some of his *powers* to Harry, he transferred some of 
> *himself* (but not intentionally, as Dumbledore says).  As we learned 
> in HBP, this is exactly the function of a horcrux, to contain part of 
> a person's soul or self.
> 
> If this is correct, then I can only conclude that Harry will have to 
> give up his life in order to finish off Voldemort.  I believe book 7 
> will see the heroic death of Harry Potter.

Geoff:
I feel I must take up an opposite stance to you on this. In the past, I have already posted 
that i do not believe the "Harry-is-a-Horcrux" and am going to re-post some of my 
comments to suport my view

Back in message 139859, I wrote:

<quote>
We are told that a Horcrux is created, "by an act of evil – the supreme act of evil. By 
committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux 
would use the damage to his advantage: he would encase the torn portion-"
</quote>
(HBP "Horcruxes" p.465 UK edition)

Adding to that, canon goes on:
'"Encase? But how -?"
"There is a spell, do not ask me, I don't know!" siad Slughorn, sheking his head like an old 
elephant bothered by mosquitoes..."'
(ibid. p.465)

Returning to post 139859:

<quote>
Now, considering Harry as a possible Horcrux, it has been suggested that it could have 
happened at Godric's Hollow. Passing beyond this for a moment. I think on the other 
occasions when Voldemort and Harry were close together, the conditions for creating a 
Horcrux did not obtain. At the end of Philosopher's Stone, the question has been raised as 
to whether Quirrell died because of Harry's attack or Voldemort's withdrawal from his 
possession. Whatever the cause, Voldemort was in disembodied form and was not able to 
wield a wand. One the next occasion when they met directly at the end of Goblet of Fire, it 
was Peter Pettigrew who actually murdered Cedric; at that point in time, Voldemort was 
again in no state to use a wand. Later in the face off, he was more intent on killing Harry 
than doing anything else to him. And in the last encounter at the Ministry of Magic, 
Voldemort did not murder anyone, although he tried to hit Harry with an Avada Kedavra.

Dumbledore comments on Voldemort's progress in HBP:
"However, if my calculations are correct, Voldemort was still at least one Horcrux short of 
his goal of six when he entered your parents' house with the intention of killing you. He 
seems to have reserved the process of making Horcruxes for particularly significant 
deaths. You would certainly have been that. He believed that in killing you, he was 
destroying the danger the prophecy had outlined. He believed he was making himself 
invincible. I am sure he was intending to make his final Horcrux with your death." [2]

So, if there had been a chance to make Harry into a Horcrux, it would have had to be at 
Godric's Hollow. But it would seem that Voldemort was obsessed in destroying the person 
he saw as his most dangerous opponent. I agree that on this occasion he did commit 
murder twice but I believe that his intentions were then directed to killing Harry and that 
he did not give any thought to making him a Horcux. As this point, those he had created 
were all encased in "objects" and the
thought that he could create a living fragment case may not have occurred to him.

I cannot subscribe to the idea that a Horcrux could be created accidentally. This is not 
mixing the wrong ingredients for a potion and creating something new and unexpected. 
The spells for a Horcrux must be very specific and powerful. I do not think that in the 
sudden turmoil of the backfire and personal disembodiment which would have been 
disorientating, to say the least, that Voldemort would have been able to do anything 
further in the way of casting spells and I see Lily's protection – whatever form it did take – 
saving his life and nothing else.
</quote>

And then in post 140343, I elaborated further on my feelings about the theory:
<quote>
I believe that if Harry is a Horcrux with a soul fragment inside him, this would be a plot 
device which would create problems and possible paradoxes within the Potterverse which 
Jo Rowling has crafted.

One of the points which has often been made about the Harry Potter world is that choice is 
paramount to the action. The pivotal statement is probably the oft-quoted one made by 
Dumbledore in Book 2: "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than 
our abilities." (COS "Dobby's Reward" p.245 UK edition)

Harry has made choices – sometimes consciously, sometimes not – which have guided him 
towards the side of light, of compassion and acceptance of the need to be prepared to 
tackle Voldemort. Tom Riddle, on the other hand, has set his mind to becoming powerful 
and has chosen evil and selfish ways of doing it. Others, such as Snape and more recently 
Draco, are making choices which are rather ambivalent leaving us still uncertain about 
where their final loyalties will lie. I feel that this possibly reflects Jo Rowling's views on 
Christianity. The Christian faith is a faith of choices. No one is a Christian by birth or 
privilege but by choice. But, if Harry is a Horcrux, this ability to choose is being seriously 
eroded and there then seems to be an argument for those who take the Calvinistic view of 
predestination.

Let us therefore consider the various scenarios which might emerge if Harry is indeed 
"encasing" a piece of You-Know-Who's soul. If he is, then it would seem that, in order to 
kill Voldemort, he will have to sacrifice himself to do it. If he chooses to walk away from 
the situation and decides to ignore the prophecy, then he is condemning the Wizarding 
World to a likely takeover by the Death Eaters. Even then, his security would not be 
guaranteed because Voldemort would still feel unsafe as long as Harry was around so our 
hero would spend his time in hiding, looking over his shoulder all the time and knowing 
that he had left his friends to the tender mercy of the Dark side.

But we do know from Book 6 that he is deciding to face up to Voldemort. Ginny says "I 
knew this would happen in the end. I knew you wouldn't be happy unless you were 
hunting Voldemort." And for Harry himself, `Moving felt much more bearable than sitting 
still: just as setting out as soon as possible to track down the Horcruxes and kill 
Voldemort would feel better than waiting to do it.'
(HBP "The White Tomb" p.603 UK edition)

However, this is where our paradoxes begin to raise their heads. Harry arrives for a stand-
off with the Dark Lord having dealt with all the other Horcruxes. I can see three scenarios 
here, all of which present problems if Harry is a Horcrux.

Number one. Harry apparently kills Voldemort. The last remnant of soul in him is 
destroyed but – there is still a piece of soul in Harry. What happens? Does Voldemort 
become disembodied again? What happens if you have a piece of soul but it is not within 
you? Does he become an empty shell like a soul-sucked Dementor victim? Or would he be 
able in some disembodied way to seize on the piece in Harry? I am reminded of the Lord of 
the Rings here when Gandalf says that, if the Ring is thrown into Mount Doom, Sauron 
would not die but fall so far that the possibility of him arising again could not even be 
imagined. Would that happen here and Voldemort become almost a ghost figure? 
Presumably, as per the words of the prophecy, Harry would have vanquished him, but what 
of the future?

Number two. Voldemort kills Harry. this is the worst case scenario because it would leave 
Voldemort as the victor in possession of the tattered remnants of his soul and with no 
viable opposition to him. A new Dark age would descend upon the Wizarding world.

Number three. This I consider to have a low probability. They fire spells at each other and 
kill other simultaneously and both soul fragments are destroyed. The last time they did 
something like this, we saw the Priori Incantatem effect. If, as I imagine, they are still using 
the "brother wands", Dumbledore says that "they will not work properly against each 
other.." (GOF "The Parting of the Ways" p.605 UK edition). So, unless the spells do not 
"collide" there is a very low likelihood of them killing each other.

My feeling is, that for the purposes of the plot, scenario two seems to be unlikely. I cannot 
see Jo Rowling, having brought us so far along the way, allowing Voldemort to win by a 
flick of the wand.
Scenario one provides an unsatisfying resolution to the problem of really vanquishing him 
and scenario three hints at a rerun of the GOF event which would leave the fulfilment of 
the prophecy unresolved.

So, for better or for worse, I'm sticking with the Harry-is-not-a-Horcrux camp as I feel 
that, within our fictional universe, JKR needs to show that the choices, the efforts, the 
sacrifices of those whose have stood alongside Harry, and those who have taught him to 
use his gifts have not worked in vain. This is not the real world, it is fantasy and we need a 
satisfying closure.
</quote>

My apologies for re-posting large chunks but it might be easier than leaving folk to trawl 
in the depths of the archives.