Snape's Cruelty Has Purpose (Was Re: lily/snape)/Why I Hate Snape

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 150550

Deb here:
> 
> **Applause** for Angie! YES this is what I have been thinking too. 
> Snape >has to< be nasty to Harry and Neville (and Ron and Hermione 
> by extension) just to preserve his undercover spy status with LV. 

Magpie:
I have to admit I never understand this reasoning--which sometimes 
goes along with the idea that he's faking his favor of Slytherins as 
well, all to preserve his cover.  First, there's just no reason he 
needs to do any of these things.  If he's supposed to be a double 
agent for Dumbledore being nice to Harry--and certainly being nice 
to random students like Hermione and Neville--would be fine.  Look 
at Moody!  He was exactly what Snape is supposed to be and he was 
friendly to both Harry and Neville and publically humiliated Draco 
Malfoy.  Obviously one can do all those things and still be a very 
loyal DE.  The one time we even hear a DE give someone advice on how 
to behave towards Harry it's Lucius saying it's "unwise" to appear 
less than fond of Harry Potter or whatever he says.  Did Snape not 
get the memo?  At the very least Snape could be neutral.  I don't 
think he needs years of memories of calling Neville Longbottom a 
dunderhead to convince LV that he's loyal.

Second, if Snape is a good actor, I haven't seen it yet.  I've seen 
scenes where he's covering stuff up--and that alone suggests he's 
not that great of an actor if I can see it.  Sometimes he's even 
shown trying to cover up some negative thing towards Harry or some 
positive thing towards, say, Draco, so to suggest he's acting adds 
another layer (Snape is only pretending to cover up a smile, for 
instance).  I haven't seen anything that suggests that basically his 
entire personality in canon is an act and so we haven't even met the 
man yet, really.  More importantly, that would be quite a let down 
and a cheat if, alone of all the characters, Snape is the one person 
who in the last book just gets his slate wiped clean because any 
sign of emotion he showed in the past could have been just an act. I 
think Snape's rotten behavior towards Harry, Ron, Neville and 
Hermione in particular is covered by the scenes he finds himself in--
you don't even have to look to Voldemort most of the time.  In fact, 
it's probably more interesting if you don't.  


Deb:
I think Snape was very angry and upset when Harry 
> pursuaded the Sorting Hat to put him in Griffindor that first 
night 
> at Hogwarts... if Harry had gone along with the Sorting Hat 
Snape's 
> life would have been much much easier!! 

Magpie:
As Sherry pointed out, the Sorting Hat does not want to put Harry in 
Slytherin, it merely reacts to his own demand to be put anywhere 
else but by saying he would do well there.  It certainly could have 
been considering Slytherin, but I don't see that that would make 
much difference to Snape. 

Deb:
After all even LV would understand that a House Master has to be 
nice to his students .... 

Magpie:
If LV would understand a House Master has to be nice to his students 
he'd understand a Potions Master should be at best neutral to his 
students.  Who says a House Master would have to be nice anyway? 
Harry being in Slytherin wouldn't make him any less the one with the 
power to vanquish the Dark Lord or any less someone who'd fight with 
others over the blood supremacy issue.  He'd have to "act" even more 
in that scenario since he'd be dealing more with Harry, be the one 
to punish him even more often.  He might even wind up having to 
mediate between Harry and other Slytherins.  Isn't it much better 
for him that he has to deal with Harry less? 

Deb:
> at least once in a while. Just that one little choice of Harry's 
has caused Snape a whole lot of headache, frustration, and worry. 
Plus > if Snape truly is DDM!Snape (as I strongly suspect he is, 
though I 
> know others disagree) he could have kept a much closer guard on 
> Harry under the guise of being his House Master. 

Magpie:
I really don't think he'd be that much closer to him either way.

Deb: 
>   From the night of James and Lily's murders to the time Harry 
came 
> to Hogwarts Snape had it fairly easy... he could be surly, testy, 
> demanding of his Potions students ... but he could also be a real 
> teacher and reward excellence when he saw it (I doubt that LV was 
> much interested in relatively "ancient history" vis a vis Snape's 
> class room doings prior to Harry coming to Hogwarts)... I keep 
> coming back to the canonical fact that Bill, Percy, and several 
> others from known DD supporting families passed their Potions OWLs 
> with flying colors... and I strongly suspect that F & G were 
taking 
> NEWTs Potions before they precipitously exited from formal 
> education. And I think that Snape struggles very hard knowing that 
> Harry needs to know Potions but he Snape can not tell him in a 
kind 
> way ... in a way that Harry will listen to... what he needs to 
know 
> and why.  

Magpie:
Students are still passing Potions with flying colors in Harry's 
years and no one mentions a big change in Snape before Harry shows 
up.  We're told he favors in his own house before Harry even takes 
his class--and while the Gryffindors who say this might be biased 
there still is no general idea that he's changed the year Harry 
shows up.  Snape starts the year by saying all students are usually 
dunderheads--I doubt that before Harry showed up he started the 
class more like McGonagall or Flitwick, so even that is an act for 
Harry's sake.  

Deb:

One of the memories I suspect Snape puts into the Pensieve 
> when he goes to see LV after HBP is the one where Harry actually 
> thwarts his Legilmens attempt by using the Shield Charm. He 
actually 
> breaks down and says "Well done, Potter"... very OOC for the Snape 
> we know and love or love to hate.   

Magpie:
Actually it doesn't sound OOC to me because he doesn't break down.  
He grudgingly tells Harry he's done something not completely badly.  
Which yes, shows that Snape is actually praising Harry for 
something, and I think it's a good moment looked at that way.  It 
loses something for me if this is supposed to be his real 
personality coming through.  It sounds like he hates complimenting 
Harry but is doing so because Harry did something right, not like he 
would love to be complimenting Harry all the time but can't and here 
he just couldn't stop himself.  It's just not written that way, imo.

I do think Snape is often trying to protect Harry and is DDM. But I 
don't think that means his other emotions are an act.  That's what 
makes the books interesting, that we know that whatever the final 
solution is it will have to take into account all Snape's behavior.  
That will have to include both his choice to be DDM or LVM as well 
as his electing to treat certain students the way he does.  The 
Superspy Theory of Everything may seem cool on the surface, but 
really, imo, it trashes a great if difficult character and leaves 
nothing in his place.

doddiemouse:
I hate the fact that Snape seems to detract from Harry's story for
the most part...

The only time Snape's life was truly "center stage" was occlumency
lessons...

Magpie:
Really?  I think Snape's life has been in the background of every 
single book and he's become more center stage as the series 
progressed.

-m