Pansy Parkinson (Was: House characteristics)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 150642

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip>
> > She also tends to have more girlfriends than boyfriends, which   
> > JKR seems to use as a short-cut for either "shallow" or "mean", 
> > with her female characters.

> >>kchuplis:
> I don't see where you read this.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Pansy is described as having a "gang" of Slytherin girls she leads 
around.  Lavander and Parvati are best friends; Cho and Marietta are 
best friends.  All five girls are either shallow or mean or seen as 
lacking somehow.

It's not a written in stone thing, but on the flip side Hermione's 
best friends are boys, and Ginny doesn't have a female best friend.  
It's a tone thing, I guess, and frankly I doubt it's anything JKR 
did on purpose.

> >>kchuplis:
> I think JKR uses statements such as were reproduced  
> earlier from the Pansy site as to why Pansy is "shallow"          
> and "mean".  I mean, OK, she tried to suppress a smile over baby   
> unicorns. That's about the only pleasant thing we've seen out of   
> her.

Betsy Hp:
I'm impressed by her loyalty to Draco, myself (her dislike of Hagrid 
is something I see as a positive, YMMV <g>).  But yeah, I do get 
that she's rude and very open about her dislike of Harry and his 
friends.  But it's the *type* JKR is claiming for Pansy that I have 
issue with.  I don't think she's shown Pansy in that light.  Not 
enough to be an example of how not to be for young girls.  

> >>kchuplis:
> <snip> 
> Ginny hangs out with Hermione when she is a bit older. Hermione    
> is only a year older, so I'd say that's her age. She knows Luna    
> who isn't even in her house. Just because in the later books she   
> is dating does that mean she doesn't have girl friends?

Betsy Hp:
No one close enough for Ginny to consistently hang out with.  I'm 
sure she has tons of friends, but going with how JKR writes her 
favorite girls, I would be surprised if Ginny had an invisible to 
Harry best friend.  That Ginny's boyfriends get a mention but no 
girlfriends do suggests to me that she doesn't have a best 
girlfriend.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > But Pansy never does much to fill the "mean girl" role.
> > <snip>
 
> >>kchuplis:
> Errr....."stealing boys" is not necessarily the sole definition   
> of  "being mean". Pansy's mouth seems to take care of that if you 
> ask me. But that is just my opinion I guess.

Betsy Hp:
It's an important part of being a "mean girl" type though.  Pansy 
should, if she's to be that sort of girl, be trying to date the most 
powerful guy in the school.  She should be trying to become the most 
powerful girl in the school, and she should be making Hermione's 
life a living hell.  And... well, she doesn't.

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > Just as Draco really doesn't give Harry any competition (Harry is
> > richer, more famous, more athletic, and better connected) Pansy
> > doesn't have any power over Hermione.  They're the school-days   
> > mean kids, but without any teeth.

> >>kchuplis:
> Does that make it less mean somehow?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Doesn't make them any less snarky or mean when they're being mean.  
But Pansy barely effects Hermione's life.  Draco is a bit more of a 
presence in Harry's life, but not as the "school-days" bully.  They 
both lack the power to play the type of character JKR seems to 
expect us to see them playing.

> >>kchuplis:
> And, really, Harry is richer?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Than Draco?  Yes.  If Harry wanted to buy that Hand of Glory back in 
CoS, he wouldn't have to beg someone for it, he'd buy it.  Draco 
doesn't have that sort of cash flow. (He may in the future, but not 
at the moment.)

> >>kchuplis:
> <snip> ...Lucius would appear to be better connected politically...

Betsy Hp:
I'm going to say Dumbledore trumps Lucius, though Lucius might 
protest <g>.  But Harry is also better known than Draco.

> >>kchuplis:
> <snip>
> Yeah, Harry might be the better athlete, but that's all I  
> give you on that one.

Betsy Hp:
Which, in and of itself, takes away Draco's ability to play the "big 
man on campus" role he'd have played if this were a school-days 
story.

Just as Pansy's lack of power over Hermione means she is not a "mean 
girl", though she can be mean.

> >>Quick_Silver:
> I think that part of the problem of Pansy's character comes from  
> the fact that we only really see one point of view, Harry's (a    
> male).

Betsy Hp:
That's very true.  This isn't a tale that supports the presence of 
a "mean girl", so it's a bit strange, IMO, for JKR to start talking 
like she's got such a creature in her books.

> >>Quick_Silver:
> Harry simply does not observe to closely or care about the
> interactions of say Hermione and Pansy or Pansy and any other girl
> it appears. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Mm, I think Harry would notice if Pansy were making Hermione's life 
hell.  But yeah, Pansy could well be the meanest of mean girls in 
the Slytherin common room, setting who's hot, who's not, and who 
should be hating the fact they were ever born.  And that invisible 
life might be what JKR is thinking of.  But we've seen none of it, 
so again, it's hard to see what she's talking about when she acts 
like we should all recognize Pansy's type.

> >>Quick_Silver:
> She sort of comes across as a female Peter.

Betsy Hp:
Except she gets the guy she's panting after. <g>

Betsy Hp  (who checked the list and could have just said, yeah, what 
Magpie said, but darn it, I've worked hard on this, so I'm posting, 
<g>)