Pansy/ Hermione

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 150681

> >>Irene:
> > But Hermione is as prejudiced against Firenze as Pansy is       
> > against Hagrid! We can't use it to compare the two girls in     
> > Hermione's favour.

> >>zgirnius:
> <snip>
> If you are referring to her comment about not being fond of       
> horses, I have never thought that was meant to be an insult to    
> Firenze or centaurkind.

Betsy Hp:
"Firenze!" Bane thundered.  "What are you doing? You have a human on 
your back! Have you no shame?  Are you a common mule?"
(SS scholastic paperback p.257)

Hermione may not have been thinking about who she was insulting, but 
the Centaurs would not have taken kindly to being compared to 
humans' beasts of burden.

> >>zgirnius:
> Parvati and Lavender were exclaiming in a groupie-like 
> way about how *handsome* he is, and doesn't Hermione wish she      
> hadn't given up Divination after all. The remark was to shut THEM 
> up, I thought. 
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I do agree with this.  And it goes directly towards JKR being 
unfriendly to girls being girly.  I totally would have gone giggly 
about Firenze, and Hermione would have thought I was an idiot, and 
I'd have thought she was a bit of a stick in the mud and not nearly 
as sensitive about non-humans as she liked to pretend she was.

> >>truthbeauty1:
> I don't believe it really has anything to do with Pansy being in
> Slytherin.

Betsy Hp:
Me neither.  I just cannot wrap my mind around JKR being okay with 
that sort of prejudice.  May as well condemn Pansy for being Jewish 
(or Catholic or Irish or Asian or...).

> >>truthbeauty1:
> Pansy is one of those girls who, according to Cannon,
> spends most of her time seeking the attention of a certain boy, and
> the rest of her time trying to make herself feel better by pulling
> others down. She constantly says cruel things about Hermione, about
> Hagrid, about Harry, etc.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think this is exactly what JKR was shooting for.  She just didn't 
do much to show Pansy in this light, IMO, in the actual books.  She 
likes Draco, yes (and Hermione likes Ron) but she continues to like 
him through thick and thin.  Why is this a bad thing, again? 

And again, she's got reason to dislike Hagrid.  *I'd* dislike Hagrid 
if I were in her shoes.  (Hagrid hates Slytherins per canon, and 
kids do pick up on stuff like that.  So even without him nearly 
killing Pansy's friend there's a reason for bad-blood there.)

She does come up with cruel things to call other people, though I've 
not gotten the sense that she's particularly gunning for Hermione.  
(Rita solicited dirt on Hermione when she wrote those articles.)  
Again, I think it's more that JKR doesn't have time to set up a 
clash between Pansy and Hermione (though technically it would've 
been between Pansy and Ginny, I guess) that a school-days book would 
have had.  I think she does mean for us to see Pansy as shallow and 
too image-conscious.  But it's not really there in the text, that 
I've seen.  (Except of course for the handy short-hand that Pansy 
likes to be around other girls. <g>) 

> >>truthbeauty1:
> Hermione, despite her flaws, never tears others down in order to   
> feel better about herself. If she has ever been nasty to someone, 
> they are either Ron, or deserve it. She also never really dotes on 
> boys she is interested in. If they don't like her for who she is, 
> well she isn't going to change.

Betsy Hp:
Oh yes, Hermione would *never* allow a boy she didn't really like to 
take her on a date *just* to make a boy she *does* like jealous.  
She's above such petty behavior. ::end grinning sarcasm::

Hermione's a prickly character for me.  She's not the type of girl 
I'd have liked in school, but I wouldn't have actively *disliked* 
her either.  Unless she started to condescend to me because I was 
giggly about boys in her presence, *then* it would have been on. 
<g>  But I think she'd have been too earnest for me to relate to, a 
bit too eager to play the "mother" or "adult" role.

And that's probably why I look a bit askance at JKR's take on 
the "Pansy" type and the "Hermione" type in her fat rant.  I don't 
think JKR and I see eye to eye on the nature of girlhood and what 
makes a good girl, etc.  There are places I think she's a bit too 
harsh (giggling about boys is bad), and others where I think she's a 
bit too lax (lashing out in anger is spunky and good).

But, on the other hand, the Potterverse isn't really about the 
nature of girlhood, so perhaps I'm judging too harshly.  

> >>Potioncat:
> <snip>
> So, I would have to think in this case, she means that Pansy
> represents the empty-headed, self-obsessed clones and that Hermione
> represents the long list of virtues. The two that most oppose
> are "opinionated" vrs "empty-headed." Hermione may do some awful
> things, but she's not following along blindly.

Betsy Hp:
I think you're right, Potioncat. It's just, Pansy is loyal, and 
Hermione can judge people quite harshly based on some rather surfacy 
things.  (Her treatment of Ron bugs me to no end.)  So I take a bit 
of issue on her type-casting the two characters the way she does. 
Like, of course *everyone* should see it this way.  Though I also 
see that this is one of those things were views vary mightily. <g>

Betsy Hp