Dumbledore's Death

[Tonks]

No: HPFGUIDX 150966

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at ...> wrote:
>
Sandy/OctobersChild48:
>
> ... I can accept the fact that Dumbledore is dead, .... What I
> cannot accept is the way he died. (Snip)
> Dumbledore's funeral did him justice, but his death did not. (Snip)
Jo could have done better for the greatest wizard of his time.

bboyminn:

That fact that JKR was able to generate such an emotional response in
you associated with Dumbledore's death, tells me that JKR did her job
very well indeed. That fact that you didn't like the manner of
Dumbledore's death seems to me to be right on track. How could we
/like/ any manner of death for such a noble wizard?
(Snip) 
>she had the noble mentor die a quiet and unheroic death. Not 
completely unheroic, but it was a quiet death with very little of 
the battle-blaze-of-glory that we typically see.
(snip)
>As a side note; let's look at Sirius's death. That was a very
unsatisfying death. Even though he died in battle, it was so
unexpected, so quiet, so pointless, so meaningless. 
(snip some more)

Dumbledore's death was the same; unpredictable and filled with regret
>on the part of those left behind. There is so much more that
Dumbledore could have and should have told Harry. There is so much
more that Harry needs to learn, yet his greatest protector, his
greatest mentor, the one person in whom he placed all comfort, 
safety, and hope is gone. That leaves Harry and me feeling very 
>empty, sad, and desperate.

And that lingering feeling in myself, in Harry, and in the wizard
world, that desperate hopeless helpless feeling, tells me that JKR 
did her job nicely, because that is exactly the frame of mind JKR 
wants her hero and her readers in at the beginning of the last book. 
The situation really is hopeless. 
(snip)
So the pointless, hopeless, impossible nature of Dumbledore's death
was exactly the setup the books needed at that point in the story. In
the end, I think we will see that Sirius's and Dumbledore death 
>really do have meaning and value, and really did serve some higher 
>purpose in the story.


Tonks:
As you know I see many symbols in the series that point toward a 
Christian theme. What is confusing is the way in which JKR stirs 
these symbols and causes them to come out in rather unexpected way, 
sometimes in very disguised ways and sometimes hidden in plain site. 
Everything from the names of each book to the mark on Harry forehead 
are symbols of something more. And so I think are the deaths of both 
Sirius and DD.

Let us start with Sirius. His closest friends and the ones that he 
hangs out with most are Peter, James and John (Remus John Lupin). 
This is also true of Jesus. We hear that he frequently went with 
Peter, James and John. Jesus also transfigured in their presence, 
and so does Sirius. All of this points to Sirius being a Christ 
figure. Also we have the fact, so I am told, that the star Sirius is 
seen as the `morning star' by some and also as the Messianic star 
that the magi followed. And the morning star is Christ. But the 
biggest thing is the way in which Sirius dies. Oddly he goes behind 
the veil in both body and soul. Has anyone else ever done that in 
the WW?  I would think maybe not. This points to the Ascension of 
Jesus.

Now to DD. I have written about this before. See post: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/147906

The events of the cave and the tower are events, in very disguised 
form, that are similar to the last hours of Jesus, even to the fact 
that it happened at the place of the skull. (the dark mark over the 
tower.)

Sandy and Steve are right, it does seem like the death of DD was not 
befitting the greatest wizard of all time. I too share the pain of 
his death. I agree that JKR has done a magnificent job of getting 
all of us to love DD and morn his death. The way we feel and the way 
Harry feels and way all in the Order feels are the same as what the 
Disciples felt after the Crucifixion of Jesus.  I think that is 
exactly the way that JKR has set it up for us to feel. I also think 
that we will see some sort or resurrection in book 7. It will not be 
as I or others expect, but it will be there, if only in the return 
of Fawkes. 

Tonks_op