[HPforGrownups] Snape spying pre GH (WAS: Re: When did the Lestranges attack the Longbottoms? )

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 151150

Betsy Hp:
> Hmm, this does make the Peter vs. Snape vibe that much more
> interesting, doesn't it?  How hard must Snape have searched for the
> Order spy everyone knew was there, and how frustrating that he never
> did find him.  (Was Peter similarly stymied, or did Voldemort ever
> realize he even *had* a spy?)

Debbie:
Hehehe.  How hard Snape searched undoubtedly depended on just whose side
Snape was *really* on.  If I were an ESE!Snape proponent, I would propose
that it was Snape who first suggested to Voldemort that Wormtail was the
easiest mark and therefore he should start there.  And even if Snape is
DDM!, this could've occurred before he overheard the prophecy, i.e., before
he felt remorse over it and before he switched sides.

OTOH, if he'd really switched sides he would've clued Dumbledore in on
Pettigrew's extracurricular activities.  So, I think it's more likely that
DDM!Snape did not know, and Voldemort made damn sure to keep him away from
Snape.

zgirnius:
I imagine Voldemort did suspect he had a spy, and perhaps even who it
was. There had to be soem reason he thougth Snape had left him forever,
in GoF.

Debbie:
I agree with this 100%, and further believe that if Snape did indeed
accompany Voldemort to Godric's Hollow, the rationale for bringing him along
was that he did not trust him enough *not* to.  But evidently Voldemort
didn't tell Snape where he got the information, or else Sirius wouldn't have
spent 12 years in Azkaban.  That is, unless he hated Sirius even more than I
thought (though I admit that it's possible to read Snape's actions in PoA as
actively trying to cover up a truth he knows, instead of merely not wanting
to hear anything inconsistent with his belief in Sirius' guilt).


Brady:
This is really interesting now. Point is that nobody in the older
Order even *knew* that they had a spy working for them in the other
camp! Otherwise, people would have more respect for Snape, than just-
trust-him-because-DD-trusts-him.

Debbie:
Though I can't cite chapter and verse, I think that many, if not most,
members of the old Order were aware that Snape was a spy.  And if they
weren't aware before, they should have known in OOP, since I assume that
Snape presented his spying reports at the Order meetings.  The issue is
whether he is a *double* agent, which, of course, is the question that keeps
this list humming every day.

Brady:
They would have known how difficult
it must have been for Snape to do the job he did. But I feel, that in
the pre-GH period, Snape reported only to DD, and therefore ONLY DD
could keep him out of Azkaban.

Debbie:
Actually, I think a big issue with Snape is that no one appreciates just how
hard and how dangerous his acting job is.

Brady:
Again, how come LV chose someone like PP for his spy? LV himself
acknowledges that he is not of much use. Except for getting Bertha
Jorkins, he hasn't ever shown any kind of brilliance that LV would
associate with his DEs. So, why was PP his pawn?

Debbie:
It doesn't take any brilliance to repeat information you have heard and the
only thing we know Pettigrew did was to pass information to Voldemort.  I
doubt Pettigrew had an important role in the Order, but if the Order
operated back in the old days the same way it operated in OOP, there were
meetings at which things were discussed, and Pettigrew only had to listen in
order to learn useful things to pass on.

I know Pippin things Pettigrew wasn't a good enough actor to *really* be the
spy, but between his timid demeanor and everyone's low estimation of him, I
think he wouldn't have any trouble to pull it off.

As for why he was chosen, he was the weakest link in the chain.  He could be
had, and he could be made to obey through manipulating his fear, which was
Voldemort's chief modus operandi.  Thus, he was a *better* candidate than
your average Order member.

Debbie
who probably has said absolutely nothing new


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