[HPforGrownups] Re:Prefect Ron (was DD on the Dursleys).

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 151196

On 20 Apr 2006 at 10:20, finwitch wrote:

> "Shaun Hately":
> > Honestly I have to say that my biggest problem with what we see in 
> > Order of the Phoenix is that whoever the senior Gryffindor prefects 
> > are, they seem to be leaving an awful lot to Hermione and Ron. 
> > There's no way I would leave the twins to two prefects who were 
> > younger than they were - especially not when one of them is their 
> > younger brother. I think Hermione handles them well (threatening to 
> > inform their mother was a master stroke) but the issue shouldn't 
> > have arisen. It isn't Ron's performance that concerns me - but 
> > whoever else is around in that House.
> 
> Finwitch:
> 
> You know, only Hermione had a problem with that, and even she admitted
> that F&G weren't breaking any rules. So um -- no one else saw any need
> to do anything.

If that was the case, more senior prefects should still have 
intervened - to tell Hermione to pull her head in.

But I don't, by the way, think that we can say Fred and George 
weren't breaking any rules.

Initially they put up a notice advertising for volunteers to test 
their products in exchange for cash (OotP, p.200). When Hermione 
confronts them (p.202), they don't complain that she doesn't have 
the authority to stop them - they just tell her she'll regret it. It 
seems to me that Fred and George are aware that she does, in fact, 
have the authority she's claiming. Later that day, they ignore her, 
certainly - but it's clear that they are aware that she does have 
the authority she's claiming to stop them - they are just not afraid 
of any punishment she can hand out (p.229).

It's not that they are not breaking a rule. They just don't care 
about what her powers of punishment. Not until she brings out the 
nuclear deterrent of telling their mother.

"'Oh, yes, I would.' said Hermione grimly. 'I can't stop you eating 
the stupid things yourself, but you're not to give them to the 
first-years.'" (p.230).

Note - 'I can't stop you eating the stupid things yourself'. It's 
that that isn't against the rules - testing their products on other 
students is against the rules however.

"'I can't, they're not technically doing anything wrong,' said 
Hermione through gritted teeth. 'They're quite within their rights 
to eat the foul things themselves and I can't find a rule that says 
the other idiots aren't entitled to buy them, not unless they're 
proven to be dangerous in some way and it doesn't look as though 
they are.'" (p.328).

It's not against the rules for Fred and George to eat them. It's not 
against the rules for them to sell them.

But it does seem to be against the rules to use other students as 
crash test dummies - and that is what Hermione stops them doing.
 
> We don't know who Gryff 7th Year Prefects were in OOP - Lee Jordan
> maybe? - but whoever that was, well... don't forget that these pranks
> were later used against Umbridge (and all but Draco&co were against
> her). Even the Professors secretly supported this prank-war against
> Umbridge. Why not 7th-year prefects? (6th years would ALSO be younger
> than F&G, mind you... and maybe they were in as well).

That's a lot later though. At the time this happens - the 
experimentation - the idea of war-by-prank against Umbridge isn't 
even on the horizon. And by the time that happens, the products have 
been (apparently) proven safe and Fred and George are fully at 
liberty to sell them without interference by Hermione (though I'm 
sure she'd love to find a rule that said she could).

Hermione plays by the rules. She seems to know them well. She only 
takes Fred and George on when she knows the rules are on her side. 
When the rules aren't, even if she wishes they were, she let's them 
be.
 
> Actually, it seems to me that aside from Umbridge&Filch, only ones
> against it would of been Molly and Hermione. Besides, it's not like
> F&G ever had much regard for prefecthood - Angelina as Quidditch
> Captain would hold something over them, but not since Umbridge kicked
> them out of the team...

It doesn't really matter if Fred and George respect the office or 
not. That doesn't get the prefects off the hook - they have a job to 
do whether it's easy or hard. But I could happily live with things 
even if a senior prefect had just gone to Hermione and said "Look - 
we've decided it's not worth our time to try and control these two, 
so don't feel you have to." If the older prefects have decided they 
have better things to do, then at the very least they should tell 
the younger prefects this.

Now, actually that could have happened - Hermione seems the type to 
ignore such good advice even if it was offered - but I have to say, 
even if you've decided that Fred and George aren't routinely worth 
dealing with, deliberate experimentation on first years would seem 
to be to be a special case where you have to step in. And it might 
even be easier, if you've given Fred and George leeway in the past - 
go up and tell them, that they know you're not the type to be picky, 
but come on - this is a bit much.


Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]