[HPforGrownups] SHIP Ron/ Hermione /Re:Prefect Ron

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 151311

On 22 Apr 2006 at 21:50, Joe Goodwin wrote:

>   Joe: 
> I have to agree with the above but I am going to go out on a limb 
> and say that Hermione isn't really that much smarter than Harry or 
> Ron. She gets much better marks because she is driven to work 
> harder to do well. That doesn't translate into smarter even if it > does translate to better educated. If Harry or Ron spent as much 
> time studying as Hermione does they would be a lot closer  to her > in the marks range.

I have to say I disagree with you here, Joe. At least about 
Hermione. Hermione is genuinely extremely intelligent, not just 
hardworking - although she certainly is that as well.

I work with exceptionally and profoundly gifted children and have 
for the last decade. These are children with IQs of 160 or better 
(at least on older tests - newer tests seem to be producing 
different results and we're still looking into this). In addition to 
working with these kids, I was one myself and have had a lot of 
contact with them over the years. Hermione presents to me as one of 
these children. Exceedingly intelligent. And not just to me. She's 
routinely cited as an example of such a child by many experts in the 
field. Not all these kids are hardworking, not all these kids are 
incredibly academic - but some are, and Hermione does seem to fit 
into that mould.

Now - to a great extent, this is a matter of opinion, obviously - 
but I do actually think we have one very strong hard piece of 
evidence as to Hermione's actual level of intelligence as opposed to 
her level of education and knowledge. It comes near the end of the 
first book when the three children are trying to get to the 
Philosopher's (or Sorceror's) Stone. The puzzle involving the 
bottles.

This puzzle is a classic logical puzzle. Knowledge and education has 
very little bearing whatsoever on the ability of a person to solve 
this puzzle (it can have a slight amount of relevance as a persons 
who has seen such a puzzle before at least understands the theory 
behind it - but it's slight). The puzzle presented is quite a 
complex one.

For an 11 or 12 year old child to solve that type of puzzle *in her 
head* is, frankly, a quite spectacular display of raw intellectual 
power. I would expect a gifted 12 year old to have a reasonable 
chance of solving it on paper - but to do it in your head is frankly 
beyond the ability of many exceptionally gifted children of that 
age. I know. I've had them do it (you have to recreate the bottles 
or its pretty much unsolveable, but we've done that). It's only one 
test item - but it's a high level one.

I actually happen to think that both Harry and Ron are also quite 
likely in the gifted range in terms of intellect, but down in what 
we refer to as the moderately gifted and highly gifted ranges rather 
than the higher levels. This is still very bright - a moderately 
gifted child is intellectually capable of just about anything in 
later life if they choose to work hard enough - but it is 
quantitatively and qualitatively different. The difference between 
moderately gifted and exceptionally gifted is the difference between 
1 in 50 kids, and 1 in 10,000 kids.

Ron, in particular, comes across to me as a fairly typical highly 
gifted child without a particularly strong work ethic - he can pass 
school with fairly limited effort and that's enough for him - he 
doesn't feel the need to excel. Harry - probably about the same, but 
I find it harder to get a handle on him. I always have some problem 
with elite level athletes, because they can be channelling 
intellectual giftedness into that and making it a little less 
apparent to someone looking primarily for cognitive signs. But - 
speaking as a minor expert in giftedness, this is how they present 
to me - especially Hermione. And in real life, I'm actually pretty 
good at picking these kids up. I miss some - but I'm rarely wrong 
about the ones I do ID.

And while I'm a minor expert, a lot of major experts I know share my 
assessment. One of the reasons I first read the Harry Potter books 
is because they absolutely exploded onto the gifted community, even 
before their runaway success elsewhere. People saw massive analogies 
to giftedness in the books, and were especially impressed at what 
they saw as an accurate depiction of (one type of) a very gifted 
girl in Hermione.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia